Community Discussion #2: January 20th 2013

Part 1 of 3

Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3

Kim: So, dear friends, tell me:

Is online roleplay a writing craft?


PenGryphon2007: *is totally overwhelmed again* XD


Loki: I think so, yes. For me the fun of roleplaying is working on a story with a group of other people :D


PenGryphon2007: I would say, yes. Definitely a writing craft.


Mellute: I think it is definitely a writing craft. While most of the time I think of it as wicked good story telling, I still thing good writers need to be good storytellers.


Earendill: I have to agree, definitely a craft.


Nuclear_Dingoz: Yes it's a writing craft that meshes and changes depending on everyone contributing to a single story.


Rynh: Oh, yes it is! You're writing a story together with someone, while improvising as a character. If that isn't a writing craft, then I don't know what is.


Earendill: Everyone agrees! That'sit for today folks, we're done.


Copper_Dragon: I've very recently come to believe it is. You're writing a story with other people, and like any craft you usually need (and will, we hope!) get better at it.


Loki: XD XD Earen


Kim: Mellute and Loki, can you explain if there's a difference between storytelling and writing in your eyes?


Rynh: GG, regroup next week


Wizard: There is no doubt. The impact of a scene is dramatically enhanced by the writing skills of the people participating.


Kim: Copper: If you started to believe that recently, what did you think before? What changed your mind?


Tailbone: Absolutely. I consider it far more of a writing and narrative process (as I've said before) than a game. The characters we create are interacting through collaborative story telling and the game portion comes in through special story telling tools like stat systems, dynamic interactive settings, and so forth. The medium is still writing, though! I personally find it to be highly useful for sharpening your skill in the craft.


Loki: Hm...I think that there are different types of writing. I mean you've got technical writing, or writing a paper, but then when you're telling a story you're using your imagination more...if that makes sense at all


Earendill: And one very important part of that craft is being able to improvise an answer, not matter the shenanigans bursting loose ICly!


Kim:

Wizard wrote:
There is no doubt. The impact of a scene is dramatically enhanced by the writing skills of the people participating.

This question is in response to the above quote, but meant for everyone: Which writing skills matter here? Are we talking about spelling? Are we talking about plot arcs?


Nuclear_Dingoz: Though... It's also sort of improvised acting as well.


Krissy: >.> *pops in for two seconds*


PenGryphon2007: Interesting, Tailbone, because to me, writing is a game. Or maybe I consider it one because I enjoy it so much, and it's...well, collaborative.


Krissy: Jus twanted to say hi and i miss you guys


Kim: Tailbone, it sounds like you're drawing a distinction between the RP and the G? ;)


Copper_Dragon: Well, I wouldn't say anything had 'changed my mind'. Actually I think the blame goes to someone around here (;)) on the RPR who mentioned I happen to think of RP as an exercise in writing, which to be honest had never crossed my mind before, but it made perfect sense.

... tl;dr, I'd never thought of it that way before, and then when it came up, it just made a sort of sense.


Krissy: <3


Kim: Hi Krissy! Pull up a chair?


SeraphicStar: Spelling is important, bad spelling can totally ruin the immersion of a RP.


Earendill: Spelling is always a plus, but I usually read over errors as long as they're not too bad. Being able to come up with interesting plot arcs, now that's something that rocks my socks ;o


Krissy: Eh I can't


Loki: I think both matter Kim, I know we all typo now and then, but too many spelling errors and it detracts from things, for me anyway. Same with the plot arcs, if they fall flat, I tend to lose interest


Mellute: I see Storytelling as a route for writing. One can build up their awesome writing skills through many mediums because writing has many uses. Storytelling is just an art in witch writing is essential.


Loki: Hi Krissy! :)


Kim: Pen: How is writing a game?
SeraphicStar: What role does immersion play in the game?


SeraphicStar: It might be a personal thing, but I can't get into a scene/RP if it's full of spelling errors and/or chatspeak.


Copper_Dragon:
Kim wrote:
Which writing skills matter here? Are we talking about spelling? Are we talking about plot arcs?

Both inquiries matter, I think. You want a good, legible story that will draw you in.


Tailbone: Well it depends on what you consider a game - there is the sense you are guiding the decisions of an avatar, but I consider it an art first. I'm not saying it's a chore, it's fun, but not all fun is a game to me. It's a process!


Kim: Tailbone, you're such a gaming artist. ;)


Loki: That's an interesting way of looking at things Tailbone :)


Earendill: Oh man. How many times I've had people walk up to me when I'm on Furcadia 'Cool, what game is that' 'NOT A GAME OKAY I'M WRITING A STORY HERE."


Loki: XD


Copper_Dragon: *pat pat's Ulrin* XD


Tailbone: Also I the writing skills that matter most to me are the thought processes behind it. I prefer the color and excitement good writing in structure, grammar, and spelling brings, it adds a lot to painting a scene and making it come to life, but there are people who can "write" well, but have poorly considered characters. I have leeway there, to a degree. Also awww, thanks. ;D


SeraphicStar: Immersion, for me, is one of the most important things about RP. Immersion makes the RP engaging and fun, it's what I draw most of my enjoyment from. That and creating good story lines.


Wizard: There is a profound complexity in anything that involves writing. While spelling is a plus, and plot arcs are a necessity in order to encourage long-term interaction and the best possible story, I think there is a lot of thought and detail that needs to go into bringing those stories to life through description that is capable of really making a scene vivid and memorable. I enjoy eloquence and description that paints pictures in the mind like a very good book, and that is definitely a matter of true craft.


Kim: Okay, so immersion has been mentioned a bunch in our first six minutes discussing this. though not everyone has used the word directly, I'm seeing the concept thrown around a bunch.

Do you think the primary importance of good writing is in allowing the other players to become immersed in what you're doing? Why does correct spelling or at least a low error rate contribute to immersion? Or is immersion not actually what we're after here?


Wizard: Haha, took the words right out of my fingers, Tar.


Tailbone: I really do feel like I'm painting in a different medium here, compared to when writing for myself, or in an essay technically, or in a journalistic fashion.


Earendill: Like a good book :)


Lorvilran: I can read over most things, I auto-correct myself and unless it's in another language I can correct in my head usually. *Is not really good writing large things though so may be a bit less qualified to speak round people.*


Kim: Tailbone; Is collaboration the only difference between RP and those other activities?


Earendill: Too many errors get the logical part of your brain (the one still stuck in the real world) to wake-up slap you.


Loki: Because poor spelling/lots of errors detracts from the scene...kind of pulls you out of it, if you will


Kim: Lorvilran: So you don't think errors matter. Do you still think there are other parts of the craft that need work, or do you disagree with the premise that it's a writing craft entirely?


Rynh: For the correct spelling, there's people out there who instantly see a spelling mistake and get out of their immersed world. At least, some people I met on Furcadia are pretty paranoid over it


Mellute: Spelling and grammar correctness is the first thing that will drawn in the eyes of those searching for a quality RP.


PenGryphon2007: I think of it as a game because you can always "reset" and "play" again. You've got multiple "pieces" or characters, which can move ahead, fall behind, or get lost. Though winning is measured in how much fun you have and the story concluded--hopefully, at some point.


Tailbone: Sorry, having a very hard time keeping up. I absolutely agree that immersion or at least a suspension of disbelief is what I'm looking for and that good writing is a huge part of achieving that.


Wizard: I personally think that technical errors are nothing in the face of IC reactions that are unrealistic, uninspired and uninspiring.


Earendill: It's a sad fact that your mastery of the english language and your RP capabilities are all too often corelated.


Loki: Not everybody does the 'reset' thing and starts over with the same characters though Pen, so that might be why some people don't think of it as a game :)


Lorvilran: I sse it as a game, my mind though is on auto-correct mode so spelling matters little so long as it's close enough to the original word, I spell as correctly s I can though.


Lorvilran: as*


Earendill: Having a decent graps of the language you're utilizing in the RP does help you better express yourself, so in a way proper grammer and an extended vocabulary are a big bonus.


Darth_Angelus: The better something is written, the easier it is to read. If you have to spend a lot of time trying to figure out what something says, then it becomes work, rather than fun.


Lorvilran: sometimes my letters don't work though.


Nuclear_Dingoz: i will brb very quick like..


Copper_Dragon:
Kim wrote:
Do you think the primary importance of good writing is in allowing the other players to become immersed in what you're doing?
I'm... honestly not 100% sure if I get where you're going with that. Hold on, let me look at the other questions.
Kim wrote:
Why does correct spelling or at least a low error rate contribute to immersion?
Well, I guess that depends on the person. To me, having a high rate of error (unless done stylistically--think "Flowers for Algernon") is a sign of lazy writing. If you're not going to put the effort into your basic sentence structure and spelling, how do I know you're going to put effort into character creations, interactions, plot arcs, &c?
Kim wrote:
Or is immersion not actually what we're after here?
Well... you're always immersing yourself and others into the RP, are you not? Huh, I think I answered the middle question better than the first or last. Sorry, Kim!


Mellute: There is no doubt there are many way to communicate ideas and write a story. There are no rules in art. However, fanciness and shiny writing gives an edge to the RP.
If you care about your writing you will put in the effort.


Kim: So it sounds like error-rate itself is less of a problem for most people, than the fact that it so often is a red flag telling you that the person you're playing with just isn't trying very hard.


Wizard: That seems correct.


Mellute: Exactly, Kim


Loki: Sometimes when a person doesn't appear to be trying very hard, it makes you feel like they don't care about the roleplay


Earendill: Or maybe because they're just seeing it as another game, while you yourself see it as an art form! ;)


Copper_Dragon: Precisely!


SeraphicStar: Indeed - unless it just makes the post unreadable.


Sadrain: I hope I am not too late. xD
Kim wrote:
Why does correct spelling or at least a low error rate contribute to immersion?

Usually, people that have lot of mistakes are not very good role players, because they have not read as much and they stick to general, cliche ideas as well as it makes them hard to understand. However, some people, like foreigners to English have lot of errors because they are still learning and there is at least decent role player with good fantasy underneath. Not that others can't develop and grow as role players, too, though.


XinonHyena: Indeed


Tailbone: It seems to me that the jarring sensation of poor spelling or structure can break the suspension of disbelief we begin building as we read and form the scene in our minds. Also, on the collaboration note: Well, the collaboration itself we use is a unique one we don't see when say, two authors get together. There is usually someone who is also 'playing the scene' so to speak, giving us all the realities of the area in which our characters (the only ones we are narrating for) interact. This adds a certain unique dynamic to things, especially when features and twists like dice - which I see as writing tools or prompts - are added in.


Kim: Which seems to point back to our discussion last week about wanting other player's to take on the same responsibility as you, that of trying to make sure that other people are having a good time as well.


Kim: Earendill: Do you think it being a game and an art are mutually exclusive? ;)


Kim: Welcome, Sadrain! It's never too late.


Earendill: Oh, definitely not!


Tailbone: That's actually a pretty deep topic, the distinctions between collaborative writing and a roleplaying game. I've personally found the term 'roleplaying' misleading, but there are all levels from actually playing a role to narration, but I believe most here are of the narrative fashion.


PenGryphon2007: Hmm, in that case, wouldn't writing styles sometimes cause conflict between to roleplayers?


PenGryphon2007: *two


Earendill: I feel a sudden urge to RP now. Damn you all! ;p


Kim: Pen: Please talk more about that. Why do you think writing styles might cause a conflict? Do you think it's a resolvable conflict?


Loki: Yes Kim, when I feel like my partner isn't having any fun, it stops becoming fun for me. And yes Pen, it can. I've known people that were awesome and fun to talk to, but I just couldn't rp with them because our styles and ideas were just too different.


Sadrain: Well, like I just mentioned, it's not always about being lazy, it's sometimes about being unable to write differently, for one reason or another, which can be a flag for cliche imagination.
And as for art... Well, it can be an art, it can be a philosophical discussion. I always take it as a... story writing of sorts. And just like a good story, I want it well written and the kind where not everything is spoon-fed to you.


Loki: XD Earen


Lorvilran: I find amount of pointless additives is more bothersome to me as I tend to only put as much as is required to make my point come across, it is easier to read through small posts of words that are directly what's meant tha a lot of fluff.


Rynh: Possibly. Those who prefer to write long paragraphs of text might not tolerate the RPer who writes three sentences.


Kim: Tailbone: Why is "roleplaying" misleading? And you may have guessed that the differences between collaborative writing and RP is one of those rabbit holes we're going to try and climb down. ;)


Earendill: Length of posts has never interested me. What does interest me is the actual content of a post. Sometimes a few lines are enough, sometimes you just need to squeeze in some detail.


XinonHyena: When it coems to posting length my opinion is that 20 lines of stuff you can't respond to is just as bad as a single line, no matter how well or bad it is spelled


CuriousSchnauzer: Hello!


Sadrain: I personally like to write longer posts, I come from place where it was quantity over quality (you could write 3000 words per post and not get anything done and it would be 'great' post), so, I am enjoying filling posts with actual sense and my posts, if long, aren't just extra words, but I tend to paint the situation deeper with it then. Or the inner world of my character, as much as I show it.


XinonHyena: You have to make something happen


Rynh: Agreed. If the mentioned three sentences keep the RP running, I have no problem with it either


PenGryphon2007: Well it'd be like having Tolkien and CS Lewis write a joint story. Tolkien goes on for pages with description, while Lewis cuts right to the point. I think in terms of resolving a conflict between styles, you either have to adapt to the other's--or come to a sort of middle-ground--or just resolve that it doesn't work and part on friendly terms.


Earendill: Hi! Welcome :)


Tailbone: Well, I don't feel like I'm playing a role. I believe that term came from Dungeons and Dragons. Which was close to a forerunner to online based adventure systems, except in speech instead of writing. I feel more like a narrator and a writer, telling the story of my characters rather than controlling them or "being" them.


Loki: I've always gone with quality > quantity myself Earen. But I do see a lot of people around that refuse to rp with you if you don't write a certain amount each post :(


Kim: I had a feeling post length was going to come up in a hurry. Do you think length can indicate quality or skill? Or is there a point where too much is too much?


Kim: Pen, that was a great example, thank you.


Loki: I don't Kim, length doesn't make you a good role player, to me anyway.


XinonHyena: It's not the size but the content that matters


Copper_Dragon:
Kim wrote:
Do you think length can indicate quality or skill? Or is there a point where too much is too much?

I believe content indicates skill and quality, not the size. I've seen useless 2-sentence posts that gave me zip to respond to, and I've seen 3+ paragraphs that gave me zip to respond to.


Omniphobic: Some of the best RP I've had was in WoW, where everything was done with a sentence or two.


Mellute: Length has no correlation to to skill. Length is depended on the content of the RP.


PenGryphon2007: I agree with Xinon.


garoul17: Earendill: I agree. Quality and quantity can go hand in hand without becoming tedious. A good writer knows how to address a scene in all its facets (from the layout of the characters surroundings, to the deep feelings going on within the individuals mind. I find what a character is feeling or thinking as interesting as what they happen to be saying.


Sadrain: It depends on the person, really. I also personally go from few paragraphs to a lot of paragraphs, but if I do go with second, I do explain something in greater detail, not just go "bla bla" and try to get things moving.


Earendill: Post length is hardly ever related to skill. Sure, some people can post paragraph after paragraph of actual interesting stuff that really pulls you into the scene, but more often than not it's filled with useless additives and thesaurusses


CuriousSchnauzer: What are we seeming to debate about?


Kim: Tailbone: In terms of being a narrator, I'd like to have you expound on that more. There's an interesting conflict wherein people who are trying to be narrators sometimes overstep the role of their character, and start trying to dictate the actions of others. How do you narrate a plot arc without stepping on the plots of others who are right beside you?


Copper_Dragon: Hi, Curious! Currently we're discussing post length and quality.


SeraphicStar: Length is completely independent of quality, and vice-versa.


Nuclear_Dingoz: Yes the content is the most important, I really don't even have problems with a few sentences so long as i have something to build on in my own post.


Rynh: There is definitely a limit to how much detail one should put in a post. Our imaginations can fill up the tiny blanks in a description, I don't think there is any need to go into detail about every little thing when you're describing something


Kim: Hello newcomers! Pull up a chair and toss in your ideas. :)


CuriousSchnauzer: Well thanks, Copper. And hello Kim.


Copper_Dragon: You're welcome!


PenGryphon2007: I think the reason people want paragraphs (and specify) is because they don't want short, one-liners that are just response-reactions. They want something to develop, which takes words and time.


Earendill: Using imagination is very important to RP. That's what blanks can indeed do! It does limit just how much control you have as a "narrator", though. Sometimes you just need to give other people a chance to fill in your blanks instead of dictating everything.


Kim: Okay, so almost everyone just answered that quantity does not equal quality.

Why then are length requirements ("1 paragraph minimum", for example) so overwhelmingly common in online RP communities? What purpose does that serve?


Loki: Yes, welcome all the people that just joined us <3


Sadrain: When there is situation where I have to affect other character, I give them options, and hint at their possible outcomes, like if my character decides to push someone out of something's way, they can resist and both get hit or if they will be surprised, only my character might get hit and then my character also might be able to attack back at the thing (from recent role play example).


PenGryphon2007: I just answered that above. XD


Earendill: I think what Pen just mentioned, Kim.


Mellute: It gives beginners a place to start.


Kim: So you did, Pen! XD


Lorvilran: You have to be able to make out what the person's character does or else it's no good. I lose interest if someone is posting something where I have to ultimately pick out what is the mostt important things to it, fluff kills interest for me. People often think quality=quantity or thee reveersed.


Kim: Mellute: You mean the length requirements give beginners a place to start?


Sadrain: It's like "it can go like this/my character will react like this if they do that, or like that if they (other player's character) do that." I have found it somewhat fair.


Earendill: When it comes to a point in my posts where someone else needs to react, I generally stop. I'm not a big fan of just mentioning a ton of options in the post.


Loki: I think it depends on the situation Pen, if two characters are having a conversation, to me it has never felt natural to have them monologue at each other, hence shorter posts. If some action is happening, then the posts generally need to be longer


Earendill: Oh yes, nicely said Loki


PenGryphon2007: And I think too, the player is saying what they feel comfortable writing. Meaning someone used to writing pages of prose (which isn't a bad thing--it's stylistic) probably won't work well with someone who likes to condense reaction and action into a paragraph.


SeraphicStar: If you're inspired and write a lot, and the reply you get is an uninterested four-word post, it can be quite disappointing.


Tailbone: Also, I also agree with quality over quantity! That is another of the fine distinctions between roleplay and collaborative writing, that another game features comes from people taking turns in sequence rather than just writing together, with limits on the things they can do. They have to make every post push forward the story, which is a challenge and a goal, much like the movement of pieces on a board. Returning to limits, though, and your question, Kim:

You make sure everyone is aware of their limits and "roles" in a story. This is why we have RAH and Dungeon Masters and people in control over their solitary characters. I think things generally go smoothly as long as you stick to your given boundaries and everyone is aware of what those are.


Sadrain: It's not ton of points, just a line or two, to give a general feel of the situation, Earendill. Rest is up to them, they can even take a completely different route.


Mellute: Kim: Yes. It can be difficult to join a group of RPers when they are not sure where to begin. Overtime a rhythm is formed and the rule isn't a problem anymore.


PenGryphon2007: I agree, with that, Loki. :) Dialogue is a little different than action/scene descriptions.


CuriousSchnauzer: How long have yall been on this subject?


Rubix: *hops into the frying pan*

I think it is probably a way to help weed out someone that isn't serious about rping Kim. Sometimes you see a length requirement and balk, then move on somewhere else. And sometimes you're like, "Oh this person wants some commitment I got that." But I also agree with Mellute in the fact that it does give beginners a place to start as well.


Kim: We've been on the umbrella topic of "Is online RP a writing craft" for about 20 minutes, Curious. :) We've been exploring different topics in that vein.


Loki: Hey Cubey! <3


Sadrain: I personally can't work with just one or two lines, because they're like "she smiled, brushed hair out of face". I mean... What I am supposed to do with it? Why must I put in all the work to get things moving, if the other person doesn't contribute at all? But that goes back to responsibility thing.


Rubix: <3! Sorry I'm late, getting caught up now.


Mellute: However, I have noticed a trend where people will simply match another's post length. I am not sure how I feel about that.


Lorvilran: It isn't commitment if someone puts fluff that means littlee to the actual rp. Over time I build up my posts but they never geet to the 2-3 paragraphs that a lot of people seem to eexpect.


Earendill: That's where quality of quantity comes into, Sadrain. A few lines containing nothing of interest are just as bad as 8 lines of fluff.


Loki: That is still talking about quality though, I firmly believe you can have a quality post that is only a couple lines


Kim: So for Rubix and Mellute: Do you think it is fair to require someone completely new to the game to produce a paragraph every time? Should they be told that there are exceptions for short posts that still give others something to respond to, or just state the length requirement on its own?


CuriousSchnauzer: Well there is much to talk about then isn't there.


Earendill: over*


Kim: Mellute: Why is matching post lengths a problem, in your eyes? Isn't that just someone trying to making the other feel comfortable by matching their style and energy?


Tailbone: Also yes - sometimes quality does equal quantity, depending on what is needed to push the scene forward. This is sometimes something that add much to the story and develop it better, but then again there are also times when not much is required or even available. This is especially true for when characters are deep in discussion, not all interacting has to do with a lot going on.


Mellute: Fair? No but think about it. A paragraph is three to five sentences. Come on, now.


Earendill: I personally just post what my character has to say/do, nothing more. Unless it's something that helps the scene in some way.


Sadrain: I think short posts sometime just get the action done, but don't give a feel of character, of the situation, too, but as in a story, I like to feel all of it. But some people manage to avoid this lack of expressing even in short posts, especially if their characters have a sense of mystery to them - then it feels natural.


XinonHyena: Length requirement is a double-edged blade


Kim: What I'm hearing here is that nearly everyone thinks that a post should be built with moving the action forward and giving others something to respond to at its core, regardless of length.


Tailbone: I've personally began learning more about what it means to make a good, short, concise post as one of my newer characters is a beautician who spends time chatting with clients while working. It's been a great opportunity to understand what it is to establish good dialogue skills.


XinonHyena: One one hand you encourage people to put effort into it, on the other hand people might also just begin putting pointless filler in their posts


Copper_Dragon: Definitely.


PenGryphon2007: Yes. I would agree with that, Kim.


Earendill: Indeed, Kim!


Mellute: Matching length can be counter productive. This leaves room for instability I think.


Rynh: Agreed!


CuriousSchnauzer: Speaking of which, I am not RPing with anyone. I am sort of new here. I would like to know if anyone would like to RP.


SeraphicStar: Aye.


Loki: Yes Kim :)


Earendill: Welcome to the chat -AND- RPR then! =D


Rubix: Very true Lor, didn't think of it that way. :) Kim I don't think it's a fair requirement, it's why I don't have it nor have I ever used requirements for rp. My only requirement period has always been: Fun. But I do know that people use them and I think it can be used (correctly sometimes) to encourage new users or newer rpers to expand on their posts and hopefully help them over all with development etc. However, fluff doesn't apply.


Sadrain: It is true, but still I enjoy a certain link to the character and surroundings, so it's not just plain "she shot him, rejoyced and we are done here, let's move on." But how did your character feel about it? And what was the general situation? Not just "blam, blam, we're done", I am sure. It rarely is so in real life. Then again, it DOES depend on character.


Tailbone: Yep! A good way to sum it up.


garoul17: Right, Kim. RP is, when you get down to it, a collaborative story. If the story isn't moving forward, people will lose interest and put the book down.


Loki: Well Curious, we are having a planned discussion right now, but I am sure there are plenty of people that would love to rp with you. Maybe you could try posting on the RP Discussion forum :)


Rubix: And yes Kim! I so believe that! Posts are meant to move action along!


Sanne: Seems I'm a little late.


Earendill: Better late than never!


Kim: Curious: I suspect you will find people interested in RPing here! For the next hour and a half we're holding a scheduled discussion on the craft of RP, so it's best if you stay on topic with that for now -- just because it's such chaos in here, if there are side conversations no one will know what's going on. You'll almost certainly find someone who is all hyped up to RP when we're done, I bet!


Sadrain: Better late than never, Sanne!@


Copper_Dragon: Hi, Sanne!


Sadrain: Oh gosh, someone says that besides me. xD


SeraphicStar: Sanne :D


Earendill: Great minds post alike ;D


Rynh: Hai Sanne


Loki: Hi Sanne :)


Sadrain: And you say that, too! XD Mind buddy? XD


Kim: Sorry, I'm a bit behind, catching up!

Tailbone, I'm very interested in what you have to say about short, concise posts. How short are you talking? Why are those challenging?


CuriousSchnauzer: Oh, sorry everyone. I was not informed (I think).


Kim: So someone who is new to RPing and trying to get better at the writing side of it... What advice would you have for them? :)


Earendill: Perhaps!


Sadrain: I think my posts get swallowed, or I am only one who enjoys a bit extra information, rather than just bland action/role play moving forward. xD


Earendill: The best advice: think.


Sanne: I like to think there is a happy balance between wanting a few lines and having some quality action that moves the plot forward. I love to read novel-style posts as an avid reader, but like a good book it has to be captivating and interesting. Length is never a guarantee for quality, it just helps male quality posts more enjoyable for me. :) My two cents.


PenGryphon2007: Keep writing; keep trying to new things, and keep posting. :) That's my advice.


Mellute: I would give them tips on what to write about and ways to react to posts.


Sanne: make*


Kim: Sadrian: Why do you say that action is bland?


Rynh: Think about how you can make your character interact with the other's in the most interesting way possible.


Mellute: Not tell them how to write but common elements people use.


Earendill: And yes, practice. Don't get discouraged if some people won't RP with you because of your lack of experience.


Loki: What Pen said, keep writing, keep going even when you get discouraged :)


Tailbone: Well it of course depends on what exactly the characters are up to at the time, but when you have people lying on a bed chatting, or sitting around eating, or cutting hair while someone else can only sit there, etc. it creates a challenge to keep the story moving along while remaining interesting. There is a whole different skill required to challenge requirements of quality when a reply may simply be a shrug, a clip of scissors, and a short word. Then you find the find balance between what might be considered "fluff" and stretching something out and adding true color.


SeraphicStar: I personally enjoy a more fast-moving, real-time kind of RP, posts consisting of a single action or sentence. Like lightspeed improv.


Rubix: Write. Write often, rp with various users, go out of your comfort zone, don't be afraid to try something new.


SeraphicStar: I'll need to brb real quick. I'll be back.


Earendill: And that's a really interesting Take, Tailbone


garoul17: Study some of the "old pros" of wherever you happen to be (Furcadia, D&D, online, etc.). Review some of the archived logs and see how they write their stories. Does that mean you should match? No, but it gives you an idea what to practice with, what to anticipate in the place you're RPing, and what those there might expect of you. Just because a rule may say something like "YOu must post x-lines" doesn't ALWAYS mean you must. Watch the admins and you'll quickly see they don't always follow that rule themselves.


PenGryphon2007: The only way to get better at writing, is to keep doing it. There's no hard, fast rule that says "This is the way you should do it" -- because in the end you're going to have to experiment to see what works for you. And sometimes trying new and daring things will surprise you. I know I've surprised myself a handful of times while roleplaying.


Tailbone: There is huge character development to be found in mere words and thoughts passed between characters. That should never be underestimated in favor of action and excitement.


Sadrain: I don't say it's necessary bland, but it can feel like that if there is nothing else to the role play than it. I like to have a link to character and surroundings, get to know what my character is having interactions with trough role play and if they just shoot, but never twirl their fingers or fiddle with their clothes or express what they like or dislike... Or where it all is going on and what is the general situation... Then it gets bland very quickly.


Nuclear_Dingoz: As have I pen lol.. i think all you can do is practice. It's like everything else, you have to work to get better at it. To hone your own personal craft.


Earendill: But that's part of the quality! SOmetimes fiddling your fingers is exactly what the story needs! Or what someone else needs to pick up your character is bored or uncomfortable


Sadrain: That's what I meant!


Sanne: Am I the only one who believes reading a lot of novels helps become a better writer? I find my RP abilities drastically increase the more I'm reading books at the moment. :)


Mellute: Sadrain: I agree. I like to give small details to characters as well. Plus it helps to fully show off your own writing style.


PenGryphon2007: Sadrain, what you described happens a lot--and I think has to do with lack of a plot or storyline...which can happen when there's no set incident to bring two characters together or drive them apart.


SeraphicStar: Back :D


garoul17: Oh you're not the only one, Sanne


Earendill: Oh no, Sanne. I do think that too. Maybe that's just because I'm an avid reader myself.


Kim: Sadrian: I don't think anyone here would say that any of those things are bad! I think the point that was trying to be made was that overstuffing a post with something that contains no "meat", no additional information about the character's soul or actions such as describing how they breathe for ten sentences in every post (extreme example) just to get length, that degrades the real stuff.


Mellute: Sanne: I have been influenced by the genre of books I am reading :D


Loki: Yeah, I always try and put some cues into my "narrative" parts of my post, so that the other person has clues as to what is going on with my character


Copper_Dragon: I've noticed that too, Sanne. and wb, Seraph


Tailbone: Exactly, Kim!


Sadrain: You are not the only one, Sanne! Reading definitely helps! But in developing the story and characters, AND portraying them both.


Loki: I think reading does help a lot Sanne :) and lots of different books with different styles


PenGryphon2007: Narrative cues help a lot!!!


Earendill: Nicely put, Kim.


Sadrain: *Both


StarArmy: It's important to give the other players something they can react to.


Loki: Yes Kim :)


Mellute: When it is my turn to post, I usually get an idea what the goal of my post should be and then flesh it out sufficiently.


Sadrain: Yes, Kim, but everyone seemed so focused on short and action driven posts I started to feel like those things are getting forgotten. xD


Kim: That's actually an interesting point! Let's address that. For those of you that think reading helps, can you expound on why? Do you run into challenges of learning styles of writing that tightly intertwine the actions of characters, and have trouble translating it to posts where you have only one character to control?


garoul17: I learned alot about how to flesh out a scene from my favorite authors. King and Troop were some of my links to how to write in depth about those little things most authors would just push to the side, things that an observer would easily notice.


Sadrain: But I oh so love those little details.


Nuclear_Dingoz: Same Mellute... i set out a skeleton of the post in my head and then fill it in.


Kim: I love those details, too. I would actually count those details as "actions" that give people things to respond to. Because they add emotional information to the scene.


Loki: It exposes you to different styles Kim, and you can learn from it, even if you are only using one character at a time, instead of multiple like in a book


Tailbone: Well reading comprehension skills have a direct correlation to our writing ability. It expands our vocabulary, examples of word usage and structure, and helps grind in how the process works and the many ways it can. Then this in turn affects how well you can add life to the story.


Earendill: What Loki said. Not to mention it might inspire you!


Kim: Mellute: What kinds of goals do you set for your post?


StarArmy: At a minimum, reading a lot of books will help a player with the flow of words and vocabulary. Books (and also movies and TV shows) can also give us not only inspiration for scenes, people, and action, they can also serve as examples for the pacing of a story.


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