Hello hello everyone! Welcome to our RP craft chat topic for the week!
A special thanks to PenGryphon2007 for helping prepare some of the prompts this time around. She's got some really insightful questions for you, so be sure to thank her for being deliciously thought-provoking.
Also, a heads up: This week, we're going to be MUCH stricter about enforcing people staying on topic and being constructive. There will be one warning before people get a 1 hour silence. We've been very lenient in the past, but at the size these chats get, it's critical we stay on topic or it become completely impossible to follow. Cool?
Nuclear_Dingoz: I only have an hour
but I look forward to this chat 
StarArmy: Oh! Kim, are you feeling better this week?
Rubix: *nods* Cool.
Kim: Although I'm still coughing a bit, the hideously TMI medical stuff is subsided. Thank goodness!
PenGryphon2007: I'm good with that!
Copper_Dragon:
Oh boy! Thank you for very-near-future thought provoking, Pen! And yes, we're here to keep the peace, like Space Cops. With less space.Sanne: *throws confetti to celebrate Pen*
Kim: First prompt!
What makes a character "special" as opposed to "normal/mundane"?
Nuclear_Dingoz: well literally, something about them aside from personality that makes them unique.
Rubix: Varies. They can have special skills/traits/looks, have powers unusual to their location/setting, or simply just be different.
Tailbone: Every mundane or 'normal' character should have that too, though.
Alecia: Well, I really enjoy characters who break established tropes, that would possibly be one type of special.
Kim: There's no personality that would qualify a character in your eyes, Nuclear? Not even if they were going against the established "norm" of their setting?
StarArmy: Special characters are empowered to make an impact on the in-game universe.
Earendill: *drops into chat* Hail and well met Repositorites!
Tailbone: What does normal even mean? Are we trying to suggest that a character is 'special' if they merely stick out from the masses in whatever culture they may be active in? Is that what these words mean...?
Sanne: Hello Earendill!
Kim: Oho, very interesting StarArmy. Who gives them that power?
Hi Earendill!
Kim: Tailbone: We're trying to define that right now. What do you think? How much unusualness does a character need to stick out?
Rubix: Well presumably the player, however if they are going to be in an established setting hopefully the "power" would be something allowed by a DM/GM.
Alecia: It could be their behaviour, the ability not to go with the flow and carve their own unique path instead.
StarArmy: The person writing them does. In a novel it's the author, and in an RPG it's usually by virtue of them being player characters as opposed to NPCs. They're the protagonists of the story, and they will change the world and/or be changed by the world.
Nero: Special is a very broad term, I have used a variety of words to refer to sub-categories, and I'm wondering which we want to talk about here, or perhaps just which first?
There is the snowflake, which is a character that has special fancy powers that no one else has(of the supernatural sort) and is often but not always more powerful.
We have short buss special, which doesn't seem like what we're getting at here.
Then we have flavor special, which is a character with a crazy background/upbringing on the scale of the TMNT or batman that makes them special.
I'll bet there are more but they aren't coming to me at this moment.
Nuclear_Dingoz: Oh of course personality can make a character special. I was speaking of beyond that. Since a mundane normal character can have a personality that makes them special.
Tailbone: It seems that most are defining 'special' as 'unique' or 'different', but we all are in our own ways - a 'mundane' or 'normal' character seems to be one that fits the general assumptions of their setting, culture, era, etc. This means that they themselves could be 'special' if placed in another setting. So, I'm leaning more towards RedArmy and a more function definition of 'special' meaning one who can affect the story or setting in a particularly unusual way irrelevant of their other aspects.
Sanne: I think there's a really fine line between normal and special. I'd imagine a character who's special impacts the story or the universe in a really big way, makes big decisions that may alter the course of events that are set. However, this can be accomplished by normal characters with no special powers.
Nuclear_Dingoz: It would vary from setting I believe. In a world where everyone is mentally insane, the sane person would be special.
Copper_Dragon: As I wanted to say but never got around to last topic, 'normal' is the establish 'status quo' for a setting. It varies greatly from setting to setting, but universally it is whatever is considered 'average' for that setting. My favorite example: What's 'normal' for Warhammer 40K is definitely not normal for, say, Thundercats.
So a 'special' character, so I'd imagine, is something that breaks that norm, whether it be in a big or small way.
StarArmy: In real life, special people are the people who realize that they have a power to defy the norm and make a difference. In another sense, the special people are the ones you care about. In order to be a special RPG character I think that's true too. You have to care about them.
Tailbone: Yes, I agree. I think 'special' has absolutely nothing to do with appearance, personality, powers, or otherwise. It's not how they may stand out, but how they interact and alter.
Degu: It might be a bit of a tangent but I do think a character being special also depends on how willing the players surrounding or interacting with it respond. There's a difference between a character being made special in a community to keep the plot going intentionally as opposed to someone attempting to insert that into a community themselves and be considered 'special' that way.
PenGryphon2007: So I suppose in this case, "special" would be referring to "someone who is set apart" from the others.
Rubix: Copper that's exactly what I was thinking.
Ficklerich: I would say players find it more tempting to write flashier characters. If anything, it's the mundane that are harder to come by. I think it's all dependant on how the player writes the character. For me, those that are dynamic and are written true-to-life are the ones that stand out to me.
Ficklerich: Also hello~
Earendill: Well of course most PCs are 'special' in one way or another. Everyone wants to be part of the story, and no one remembers the background characters.
StarArmy: Faceless generic background characters that aren't special are generally viewed as disposable. Think red shirts.
Sanne: What do you guys define as the universe though? The galaxy, or the immediate area in that character's life - family, friends, maybe a random stranger? Does the effect a character has have to influence the entire world to be deemed special, or just the character's own world?
Nero: Star army has done an excellent job of pointing out my point before I got to it. Are we talking about special that includes a perfectly mundane(supernaturally speaking) admiral of a fleet, who can clearly change the fate of many at a whim, or are we restricting our conversation to the superman special, which I often call snowflake special?
Eaite: I'd also say that a mundane character has no strengths or weaknesses outside of those everyone else would have
Copper_Dragon: @Sanne: Not that kind of universal. I mean all-encompassing. Every setting that has ever existed and ever will has its own form of 'normal', from the most grimdark and bloody of 'em to the most sparkly and sun-shiny-happy.
Kim: Hello!
This is actually really interesting right off the bat.
You wouldn't call an admiral with the power to order fleets around powerful, Nero? That seems like a special super power to me... Except instead of talking to animals or flying, he sends thousands to do his bidding.
Earendill: Speaking of admirals, I think Grand Admiral Thrawn counts as special in that case. Not only was he a brilliant strategist, he was -so- special he was the only alien in the Empire's navy with a high rank.
Nero: Another thought, in a game where there are lots of PCs, does the fact that they are PCs and special in that way become the new normal? Does one then need their own fancy power to be special?
Wizard: A character that is special is one that is remarkable, I think, and the definition of 'special' is incredibly broad. They can be special because they go against the grain in usual ways, stand out because of their position in a plot, perhaps because of their capacities/skills/talents that place them in IC (or OOC) demand, or they may simply be very memorable for some other reason--appearance, personality, something vivid that makes them stand out, like when you walk down the street and someone just catches your eye for the way that they move or act or look.
StarArmy: To pull an example from video game, in Team Fortress 2, each character class is special in its own way and has a set of tools they're able to use that others generally can't. In the same way when you're roleplaying as a party, we want to set up the group so that everyone has something to bring to the table.
Wizard: Sorry, I meant to say unusual ways!
StarArmy: I think the key is not to create a situation where your fellow roleplayer feels useless.
Kim: So far all of the definitions of normal that I'm seeing here don't seem to compete with the definition that StarArmy put forward: A character who has been specially empowered to effect the world in noticeable ways. Whether that's through a super power or through force of personality or special privilege (admiral). Do you think we've seen a definition go by that defies that idea?
Tailbone: It seems that mundane is being defined by attributes of appearance and ability as are special characters, when what makes someone remarkable is the things that they do. I think mundane and special are more philosophical elements based on the impact they have on the lives of others - including that of readers. What Wizard said.
Wizard: I don't think a character has to affect the world in noticeable ways to be special at all.
Rubix: I don't think so Kim, I think if anything the definitions may sound different but ultimately sum up to that. Special characters, regardless of intention, more than likely will effect the world in noticeable ways just by being different.
StarArmy: They just need to impact another character to be special to that character.
Kim: I think "mundane" is going to be sort of skewed here, because RP characters are by definition special in some way -- at LEAST special enough to be cared about, or else we wouldn't play them or play with them. It's possible that *all* player characters in a group can be special.
Nero: I am wondering, Kim if your posited definition is really just the definition of "Player Character", and special should be reserved for something else.
Rubix: Though "noticeable ways" do not have to be drastic or large, they can be small.
Ficklerich: Well, mundane in the sense of not having any supernatural power, I'd assume.
Nero: Also, a conversation about special characters wherein we declare all characters to be special might be kinda short.
Wizard: Every character affects the world they are in SOMEhow--encouraging the economy by buying or selling something, helping a friend who's going through a tough Time, etc.
Wizard: When you say 'noticeable ways', I assume big deal things--small or major wars, magic, and so forth.
Kim: Nero: I'm going to do just that, because PCs ARE all special. But you're right that we're going to need to pick a focus to move forward.
So let's gently shift our attention to "specially powered" or "specially EMpowered" characters for now -- we can return to how even "mundane" or unpowered characters can be special next week!
Sadrain: Hello everyone.
Earendill: Hi!
Kim: Hi Sadrain!
Sanne: Hi Sadrain!
Jello_Monsta: Boo.
Tailbone: If we're going by shallow attributes then 'mundane' and 'special' can change entirely on what setting a character is in - while in a small town of the middle ages, a brightly dressed dragon would stick out very much and appear 'special', but among his own kind and highly dressed society, he would not. Those are too weak of definitions for me to accept as they are so easily applied or removed and often subject to opinion.
It's absolutely more related to their degree of influence and how memorable they are I'd think. If we can say that there is any such thing as 'special' at all, really, it's beginning to feel like this has no real meaning. It could be that all characters are special or none are at all outside of personal taste.
Tailbone: Whoops, shifting topics. x) Carry on.
Kim: Tailbone: Yes, all characters can be special. Let's assume that when we talk about special powers, we mean special to the situation that they are in, not that there is a universal definition for powerful.
Kim: Can a special character be too special--how so?
StarArmy: It would be amusing to see character sheets with a sliding scale on them for how special the character is to the campaign. In practice, some video games do this and have the most special NPCs unable to be killed.
Sadrain: I must admit, most of my characters are with special powers, mostly because they were 'born' from worlds that had such. However, I am careful to not overpower them and often, it is as much as curse as joy to them and I like to make my characters absolutely unique, not just a vampire, werewolf or a firemage at the very basic. But every character, of any 'niche' can be very special. Only depends on person's intent to make it so.
Sanne: Just like in a good food dish, characters and ingredients should compliment each other. If one flavor overpowers the others, it ruins the tastiness of the dish.
Sadrain: They can, if they are x-ray seeing mermaid werewolf with vampire traits. It's just over the top and the player is most likely to godmode with them. Even super powers... special aspects should have some point and sense.
StarArmy: Most of us are familiar with the concept of the Mary Sue, a character so endowed with author-given ability that it disrupts suspension of disbelief.
Alecia: I think a character can be too special if the other characters react to him or her negatively in a way that disrupts the storyline.
Sadrain: As Sanne and StarArmy said.
Kim: Alecia: Do you mean that characters need to be likable?
Nero: Star Army, I have played in a game for 13 years with just such a sliding scale. Each character sheet has a clear, and usually quantifiable value for how far off the central path it is, which we refer to as being a snowflake once it becomes extreme.
StarArmy: Likeable in the RP or to other players?
Earendill: Strangely enough, in a lot of RP settings what's supposed to be special is usually ignored because people don't like attention drawn away from their own 'special' characters.
Eaite: A character does not have to be likable, however it must be believable.
Lorvilran: I doubt a character needs to be likeable, but I think she meant if it's disruptive then it's a problem.
StarArmy: Interesting, Nero. What game?
Nuclear_Dingoz: I agree with Eaite lol.
Alecia: Kim: Good question! No. But they shouldn't be unintentionally unlikeable.
Kim: I think what you're trying to say is that they should still be fun to play with, even if the other *characters* hate them?
Sadrain: Earendill, that's quite true!
And again, it really depends on setting. If you make your own setting, you can shift it to your wanted character, but if you can have super amazing character and play in that setting, you have to let other person be free in their crafting, too, not limit them, afraid their imagination will create something more amazing. You should benefit from that!
Alecia: Exactly! Thank you.
Kim: Eaite: Good point! I assume you mean believable as part of its story world, or self-consistent in terms of its thoughts and actions, not believable in terms of its power levels?
Tailbone: I think it's too 'special' if it's disruptive to maintaining the suspension of disbelief in any given setting.
Kim: Do you guys think that people competing to be the most special is a common problem? If so, WHY is it a problem?
Lorvilran: It is in some places, others no.
StarArmy: If the competition is OOC, then it could be a problem because players may frustrate each other and the competition may turn unfriendly.
Earendill: It's a problem because a lot of people want to be a main character and too many of those and attention gets divided so much they don't feel 'special' anymore.
Sadrain: It is because everyone wants their characters to be liked, most tragic... special. So, the game would revolve around them more and it is because many want attention, on them or their characters. It satisfies them.
Copper_Dragon: