Good afternoon, RPRities! I'm afraid I've hit a small snag with my paladin character I would appreciate some assistance with.
I'm trying to rework his spell-prayer system for the MMO Furcadia. Those of us who've been RPing there long enough are probably more than familiar with the fact that a lot of its RP groups require preparation posts (a.k.a 'preps') for any type of spell/psi/ki/&c usage.
And there's where I hit my problem. My paladin doesn't really use preps anymore. What he has right now is a dice system, a mana pool and spell list roughly based on a MUD I once played him in, and notes for the duration of a spell-- I started doing this after chatting with some of my fellow rpers because I didn't feel preps made sense for him. After meditation he could pray for five seconds or two days, but either his prayer would be answered, or it wouldn't. It just seemed logical to me.
So here's what we came up with:
Following so far? Good! No? Sorry about that--I'm probably over-explaining a little.
See what I'm missing there though? Preparation posts. The only time I use them for this guy is when he uses the odd cantrip or magical parlor trick from his fledgling mage days; spells between 1-2 preps. I've been fortunate enough to play in places where the owners have seen and ok'd what I do, but a part of me feels uncomfortable stepping into new groups with rules requiring preps and going, "Um, yes, hi there, Mr/M(r)s Dream Owner, I have a character that traded in preps for possible instant-casting based on dice, is that okay?" Though I've tried to make it fair and keep the spells from being OP (those that might be OP are used lightly), the whole thing still doesn't feel fair to me because I'm a wee bit paranoid about ruffling feathers with my non-conformity.
So if you've managed to get your way to here (thank you for putting up with my rambling!) what should I do? Should I keep the system as is, ask for permission to apply, and risk being denied acceptance into almost all rp groups? Try to incorporate preps somehow? Do away with this entirely? I do love this system though. I'd rather not do option 3 if I can help it.
I'm trying to rework his spell-prayer system for the MMO Furcadia. Those of us who've been RPing there long enough are probably more than familiar with the fact that a lot of its RP groups require preparation posts (a.k.a 'preps') for any type of spell/psi/ki/&c usage.
And there's where I hit my problem. My paladin doesn't really use preps anymore. What he has right now is a dice system, a mana pool and spell list roughly based on a MUD I once played him in, and notes for the duration of a spell-- I started doing this after chatting with some of my fellow rpers because I didn't feel preps made sense for him. After meditation he could pray for five seconds or two days, but either his prayer would be answered, or it wouldn't. It just seemed logical to me.
So here's what we came up with:
- 1 dice with 10 sides - spells have a 50%, 40%, or 30% chance of working, labeled from simpler spells (a status buff), to intermediate (purging poison from a body), to difficult (resurrection of the dead).
- A mana pool that has 450 points total, and each spell depletes some amount from it--full points if it succeeded, half if it failed. For example, we have 450/450 mana, and he uses a spell that's 10 points. If it works, we end up with 440/450(-10). If it fails it's 445/450(-5) points.
- Duration markers-- as said above, a quick note for how long a spell's effects last and what the spells do-- stems between 1-5 turns and a few permanent spells (like the resurrection from above).
Following so far? Good! No? Sorry about that--I'm probably over-explaining a little.
See what I'm missing there though? Preparation posts. The only time I use them for this guy is when he uses the odd cantrip or magical parlor trick from his fledgling mage days; spells between 1-2 preps. I've been fortunate enough to play in places where the owners have seen and ok'd what I do, but a part of me feels uncomfortable stepping into new groups with rules requiring preps and going, "Um, yes, hi there, Mr/M(r)s Dream Owner, I have a character that traded in preps for possible instant-casting based on dice, is that okay?" Though I've tried to make it fair and keep the spells from being OP (those that might be OP are used lightly), the whole thing still doesn't feel fair to me because I'm a wee bit paranoid about ruffling feathers with my non-conformity.
So if you've managed to get your way to here (thank you for putting up with my rambling!) what should I do? Should I keep the system as is, ask for permission to apply, and risk being denied acceptance into almost all rp groups? Try to incorporate preps somehow? Do away with this entirely? I do love this system though. I'd rather not do option 3 if I can help it.
Hello, my dear Lurm!
I think the easiest solution to your conundrum would be to simply try assigning some preps to those abilities and see how it plays out. Since Draconus is not doing much of the heavy lifting when it comes to reality bending--I understand that it is the god that does that, not the one who's praying for the miracle--you could probably base preps not so much around the pains of power-drawing but around how long his prayers must be and how fast he can solemnly intone them without disrespect or distraction.
A paladin probably has an edge in regard to how many preps he needs to achieve an effect, at a cost to the diversity of the kinds of spells he can cast--that is to say, a spell that costs 4 preps for a mage may only need 2 or 3 preps for a paladin. Unlike the mage, of course, the paladin probably must be in an appropriate state of fasting/meditation/what have you that makes him or her pleasing enough to his or her god that that god will answer; off-screen concerns to take into consideration.
If you do this, I'd leave the chance offered by dice rolling to the flow of the story. If Drac is interrupted at some point during his prayer, maybe you roll a die only then to see if he is still focused enough to proceed to the next prep or finish 'casting'. Otherwise, proceed as normal, and assume that a prayer that he can prep all the way through is answered.
You could certainly keep the mana system. I think it makes sense that a god would limit the number of miracles they allow for a single paladin in a certain period of Time, to ascertain that their power is not abused or taken for granted.
I think the easiest solution to your conundrum would be to simply try assigning some preps to those abilities and see how it plays out. Since Draconus is not doing much of the heavy lifting when it comes to reality bending--I understand that it is the god that does that, not the one who's praying for the miracle--you could probably base preps not so much around the pains of power-drawing but around how long his prayers must be and how fast he can solemnly intone them without disrespect or distraction.
A paladin probably has an edge in regard to how many preps he needs to achieve an effect, at a cost to the diversity of the kinds of spells he can cast--that is to say, a spell that costs 4 preps for a mage may only need 2 or 3 preps for a paladin. Unlike the mage, of course, the paladin probably must be in an appropriate state of fasting/meditation/what have you that makes him or her pleasing enough to his or her god that that god will answer; off-screen concerns to take into consideration.
If you do this, I'd leave the chance offered by dice rolling to the flow of the story. If Drac is interrupted at some point during his prayer, maybe you roll a die only then to see if he is still focused enough to proceed to the next prep or finish 'casting'. Otherwise, proceed as normal, and assume that a prayer that he can prep all the way through is answered.
You could certainly keep the mana system. I think it makes sense that a god would limit the number of miracles they allow for a single paladin in a certain period of Time, to ascertain that their power is not abused or taken for granted.
Hi there, Wizman! 
I rather do like what you're proposing here! It's blending together the three factors I'm fretting over, and I can still get my head around it! (Not a jab at your explaining--what I mean is, sometimes I look over Drac's current system and make my own head spin. :x)
I'm going to need to take a sit down and ponder a lot of this. Unfortunately many of the finer details in how he keeps his divinity and what rules he does or does not follow have gotten lost over months of inactivity. Little baby steps are needed, me thinks! I know eons ago we spoke of a karma meter, but to be honest I don't want this to get too terribly technical. I may leave all that stuff to the actual story writing.
I rather do like what you're proposing here! It's blending together the three factors I'm fretting over, and I can still get my head around it! (Not a jab at your explaining--what I mean is, sometimes I look over Drac's current system and make my own head spin. :x)
I'm going to need to take a sit down and ponder a lot of this. Unfortunately many of the finer details in how he keeps his divinity and what rules he does or does not follow have gotten lost over months of inactivity. Little baby steps are needed, me thinks! I know eons ago we spoke of a karma meter, but to be honest I don't want this to get too terribly technical. I may leave all that stuff to the actual story writing.
The preparations mechanic isn't a sanctioned mechanic. Furcadia's creators have a page on their website explaining this. It was started by a group of players, and went viral. Ostensibly, its purpose was to balance magic users with other characters. In reality, it ensured that no one would ever willingly choose a magic user for their character ("fighter" just means any character that doesn't use magic):
> A fighter can cover any distance and launch a potentially lethal attack that will interrupt you even if it fails in the time it takes you to complete one preparation. Knowing this, there's no reason to make a magic user. Everyone makes fighters. Degenerate gameplay.
> If two magic users battle each other, whoever casts first wins. Since preps are visible, the second caster will always choose a spell with fewer preps than the first caster. Therefore, any spell with more than one prep is useless. Degenerate gameplay.
I'd recommend throwing out preps altogether. Your mana and success chance system is probably sufficient for balance.
You could even have your paladin recover mana by doing stuff to please his deity, for more flavor.
> A fighter can cover any distance and launch a potentially lethal attack that will interrupt you even if it fails in the time it takes you to complete one preparation. Knowing this, there's no reason to make a magic user. Everyone makes fighters. Degenerate gameplay.
> If two magic users battle each other, whoever casts first wins. Since preps are visible, the second caster will always choose a spell with fewer preps than the first caster. Therefore, any spell with more than one prep is useless. Degenerate gameplay.
I'd recommend throwing out preps altogether. Your mana and success chance system is probably sufficient for balance.
You could even have your paladin recover mana by doing stuff to please his deity, for more flavor.
That's the problem, Ross. I understand how preps got their start and how they work (or as you're essentially putting it, fail), and I could fling them out and have done so before.
But everyone uses them given their viral nature, and people unfamiliar with me tend to frown super hard when I want to do otherwise. I've done well with magic users before--we could argue back and forth all day about the usefulness of multiple small spells (1-2, 3? preps) vs one larger spell (3?, 4-6).
Part of my issue is that people are so used to preps, I've found that they tend to want to label non-users as godmods, twinks, &c. That's a super unfun thing. Heck, I came within two steps of being called OP just because I had a different origin and nature of magic than someone else.
So yes, in a perfect world I'd LOVE to throw preps out the window, but majority vs minority, plus a desire not to aggravate fellow players, tends to not be in my favor.
Edit: I guess the better thing to ask would be how do I negotiate with group/guild owners to avoid magic-using strife?
But everyone uses them given their viral nature, and people unfamiliar with me tend to frown super hard when I want to do otherwise. I've done well with magic users before--we could argue back and forth all day about the usefulness of multiple small spells (1-2, 3? preps) vs one larger spell (3?, 4-6).
Part of my issue is that people are so used to preps, I've found that they tend to want to label non-users as godmods, twinks, &c. That's a super unfun thing. Heck, I came within two steps of being called OP just because I had a different origin and nature of magic than someone else.
So yes, in a perfect world I'd LOVE to throw preps out the window, but majority vs minority, plus a desire not to aggravate fellow players, tends to not be in my favor.Edit: I guess the better thing to ask would be how do I negotiate with group/guild owners to avoid magic-using strife?
The only advice I have about this regarding other people is to simply not play with those who are unwilling to give you a chance, although that's probably not an option for you?
If I were in your shoes, I'd have two options in front of me:
1. I play my character however I want and find a group that is either willing to hear me out and give me a chance, or has similar playstyles to mine.
2. I throw what I want out the window and conform to the rules and guidelines set up by my target groups, even if it means I have to go by a playstyle that I don't really enjoy.
For me, option #1 is my obvious choice. I know I'd be limited in where I can go, but I'd enjoy myself 100% in the places I end up in. I hate preps and I value enjoying myself above pleasing others when it comes to RP with stuff like this, so it's pretty much a no-brainer for me.
I'm selective about the people and groups I RP with because there's nothing worse for me than to force a post into a group that is not willing to give me a chance. I know many are prejudiced by bad experiences, but I also know that I (and you for that matter) have good profiles that show maturity and the willingness to work with others to make a good game, which includes being reasonable and open minded. If someone is not willing to RP with me just because I lack preps in my character, even though the rest of my profile is detailed and shows that I'm fair and don't godmode and am willing to try many alternatives, then I don't see any reason why I'd want to play with them. I'd probably run into issues with them down the line anyway.
I don't have a lot of RPs going on, but the ones I do have are with people who I enjoy RPing with and who match my ideas. So I suppose it wouldn't hurt asking yourself what you value more - your own enjoyment in a roleplay, or pleasing others and roleplay something you'd rather not roleplay. I don't think there's any way to devise a system that lets you have the best of both worlds, not without altering it so heavily you'll likely be shunned by these people anyway. Especially if they're so picky that a different origin and nature of magic is enough reason to be labeled OP.
That's just my take on it though, and what I would do. If it doesn't help you, I'm sorry.
Wish I could provide you with a better solution.
If I were in your shoes, I'd have two options in front of me:
1. I play my character however I want and find a group that is either willing to hear me out and give me a chance, or has similar playstyles to mine.
2. I throw what I want out the window and conform to the rules and guidelines set up by my target groups, even if it means I have to go by a playstyle that I don't really enjoy.
For me, option #1 is my obvious choice. I know I'd be limited in where I can go, but I'd enjoy myself 100% in the places I end up in. I hate preps and I value enjoying myself above pleasing others when it comes to RP with stuff like this, so it's pretty much a no-brainer for me.
I'm selective about the people and groups I RP with because there's nothing worse for me than to force a post into a group that is not willing to give me a chance. I know many are prejudiced by bad experiences, but I also know that I (and you for that matter) have good profiles that show maturity and the willingness to work with others to make a good game, which includes being reasonable and open minded. If someone is not willing to RP with me just because I lack preps in my character, even though the rest of my profile is detailed and shows that I'm fair and don't godmode and am willing to try many alternatives, then I don't see any reason why I'd want to play with them. I'd probably run into issues with them down the line anyway.
I don't have a lot of RPs going on, but the ones I do have are with people who I enjoy RPing with and who match my ideas. So I suppose it wouldn't hurt asking yourself what you value more - your own enjoyment in a roleplay, or pleasing others and roleplay something you'd rather not roleplay. I don't think there's any way to devise a system that lets you have the best of both worlds, not without altering it so heavily you'll likely be shunned by these people anyway. Especially if they're so picky that a different origin and nature of magic is enough reason to be labeled OP.
That's just my take on it though, and what I would do. If it doesn't help you, I'm sorry.
Wish I could provide you with a better solution.
Like Sanne said, you need to play with people that don't suck. If you compromise, you're not gonna be happy.
Going to watch my words here since I am a moderator and thus a representative of the site, but I'd have to abandon Furc entirely if I was going to seek out the perfect people to play with. I don't hate Furc to any extent that would make me do that, no matter how dissatisfied I may be on a given day. It's entirely hit and miss (and always has been), I'd just like to lessen the blow while I still enjoy the game overall.
There's always going to be compromise though. Sanne's first suggestion is what I generally go with, but if that means I just have to do a small tweak because I won't ever find that dream that 100% works with me, I can generally live with that. The almost-called-OP example from above was a worse-case scenario, admittedly--our magic systems just didn't work at all, and I wasn't willing to compromise to such an extent. It would be better to make a new character for there, which I'd love to do--the system was really nifty and not hard to follow along with!
But er, I think I digress a little. Being selective in Furc is harder and harder as the OoC landscape has changed--these days I just grab what I can sink my claws into without pricking the locals already in the setting. Y'all are giving decent advise, but uh... not sure if my previous question got answered! Or maybe it did and I'm just having a stupid moment post-errand-run today. That's entirely possible.
There's always going to be compromise though. Sanne's first suggestion is what I generally go with, but if that means I just have to do a small tweak because I won't ever find that dream that 100% works with me, I can generally live with that. The almost-called-OP example from above was a worse-case scenario, admittedly--our magic systems just didn't work at all, and I wasn't willing to compromise to such an extent. It would be better to make a new character for there, which I'd love to do--the system was really nifty and not hard to follow along with!
But er, I think I digress a little. Being selective in Furc is harder and harder as the OoC landscape has changed--these days I just grab what I can sink my claws into without pricking the locals already in the setting. Y'all are giving decent advise, but uh... not sure if my previous question got answered! Or maybe it did and I'm just having a stupid moment post-errand-run today. That's entirely possible.
Copper_Dragon wrote:
Y'all are giving decent advise, but uh... not sure if my previous question got answered! Or maybe it did and I'm just having a stupid moment post-errand-run today. That's entirely possible.
The moral of the story is that furcadia is terrible and no one should use it.
Roleplay with cool people instead.
Ross, be nice in my topic, pretty please. Furcadia is a big source of our traffic on the site, and there are still good players on the game if you dig them up! ...plus you're talking to one right now, kupo. 
Present company excluded, naturally. Dragons are far superior writers to us mortals.
The_Ross wrote:
The preparations mechanic isn't a sanctioned mechanic. Furcadia's creators have a page on their website explaining this. It was started by a group of players, and went viral. Ostensibly, its purpose was to balance magic users with other characters. In reality, it ensured that no one would ever willingly choose a magic user for their character ("fighter" just means any character that doesn't use magic):
> A fighter can cover any distance and launch a potentially lethal attack that will interrupt you even if it fails in the time it takes you to complete one preparation. Knowing this, there's no reason to make a magic user. Everyone makes fighters. Degenerate gameplay.
> If two magic users battle each other, whoever casts first wins. Since preps are visible, the second caster will always choose a spell with fewer preps than the first caster. Therefore, any spell with more than one prep is useless. Degenerate gameplay.
I'd recommend throwing out preps altogether. Your mana and success chance system is probably sufficient for balance.
You could even have your paladin recover mana by doing stuff to please his deity, for more flavor.
> A fighter can cover any distance and launch a potentially lethal attack that will interrupt you even if it fails in the time it takes you to complete one preparation. Knowing this, there's no reason to make a magic user. Everyone makes fighters. Degenerate gameplay.
> If two magic users battle each other, whoever casts first wins. Since preps are visible, the second caster will always choose a spell with fewer preps than the first caster. Therefore, any spell with more than one prep is useless. Degenerate gameplay.
I'd recommend throwing out preps altogether. Your mana and success chance system is probably sufficient for balance.
You could even have your paladin recover mana by doing stuff to please his deity, for more flavor.
Not always interrupted, to balance it you use a concentration mechanic. Base it off a dice roll and have it be a x chance to go one way or the other dependant on how hard you're being hit or if you dodge how far you have to move to dodge.
Prep mechanic works if implimented right and people are honest in how they treat things. Copper, I would recommend trying to find a group that doesn't use prep mechanic, it's an often abused system that noone implements well.
Edit: I don't use prep method unless forced to and even then I push for a concentration check cause concentration balances out the fighter problem of prep mechanic.
Lorvilran wrote:
Not always interrupted, to balance it you use a concentration mechanic. Base it off a dice roll and have it be a x chance to go one way or the other dependant on how hard you're being hit or if you dodge how far you have to move to dodge.
You'll just have your concentration mechanic called godmoding, in the meantime, their melee characters can sever your limbs in single attacks with no chance of failure.
Lorvilran wrote:
Prep mechanic works if implimented right and people are honest in how they treat things
No one is ever honest.
Excuse me, gentlemen.
If you'd like to argue (as in, to debate) the way people play mechanics as a whole, I'll ask that you please take it to a new topic or PM's, whichever you would prefer. I believe I've already made myself clear that just forgoing 90% of Furcadia's play styles & groups is sort of out of the question for me at this present time since I have no desire to just drop the game (regardless of your or other people's opinions on it), and that in the past preps have worked out just fine for me regardless.
If you both want to go on your tangent, that's alright, I just ask that it be taken to a new thread. It appears we're getting derailed from my original inquiries about how to make Draconus' system work and how to handle talking to group owners about it-- which I don't believe was even properly addressed, in favor of just insulting Furcadia's player base as if that would suffice for me. It did not, and given how many players of the game use our site, we all know it isn't proper nor tolerated. Do not do that again.
If you'd like to argue (as in, to debate) the way people play mechanics as a whole, I'll ask that you please take it to a new topic or PM's, whichever you would prefer. I believe I've already made myself clear that just forgoing 90% of Furcadia's play styles & groups is sort of out of the question for me at this present time since I have no desire to just drop the game (regardless of your or other people's opinions on it), and that in the past preps have worked out just fine for me regardless.
If you both want to go on your tangent, that's alright, I just ask that it be taken to a new thread. It appears we're getting derailed from my original inquiries about how to make Draconus' system work and how to handle talking to group owners about it-- which I don't believe was even properly addressed, in favor of just insulting Furcadia's player base as if that would suffice for me. It did not, and given how many players of the game use our site, we all know it isn't proper nor tolerated. Do not do that again.
Copper_Dragon wrote:
Excuse me, gentlemen.
If you'd like to argue (as in, to debate) the way people play mechanics as a whole, I'll ask that you please take it to a new topic or PM's, whichever you would prefer. I believe I've already made myself clear that just forgoing 90% of Furcadia's play styles & groups is sort of out of the question for me at this present time since I have no desire to just drop the game (regardless of your or other people's opinions on it), and that in the past preps have worked out just fine for me regardless.
If you both want to go on your tangent, that's alright, I just ask that it be taken to a new thread. It appears we're getting derailed from my original inquiries about how to make Draconus' system work and how to handle talking to group owners about it-- which I don't believe was even properly addressed, in favor of just insulting Furcadia's player base as if that would suffice for me. It did not, and given how many players of the game use our site, we all know it isn't proper nor tolerated. Do not do that again.
If you'd like to argue (as in, to debate) the way people play mechanics as a whole, I'll ask that you please take it to a new topic or PM's, whichever you would prefer. I believe I've already made myself clear that just forgoing 90% of Furcadia's play styles & groups is sort of out of the question for me at this present time since I have no desire to just drop the game (regardless of your or other people's opinions on it), and that in the past preps have worked out just fine for me regardless.
If you both want to go on your tangent, that's alright, I just ask that it be taken to a new thread. It appears we're getting derailed from my original inquiries about how to make Draconus' system work and how to handle talking to group owners about it-- which I don't believe was even properly addressed, in favor of just insulting Furcadia's player base as if that would suffice for me. It did not, and given how many players of the game use our site, we all know it isn't proper nor tolerated. Do not do that again.
Oh no, I am not against Furc at all. I originated there. I won't be arguing I was just stating my opinion on things, that's all, I don't try to argue. x.x
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