With some degree of intrigue, I have always liked the idea of firearms and chemistry being incorporated into the traditional high fantasy trope, I think Warhammer Fantasy did this rather well. I've always wanted to envision how firearms and industrialization would play out in a fantasy setting. I'd like to entertain discussion about this and gain your insight regarding thoughts, concepts, ideas or experiences. This is a sort catch-all area of discussion, spanning anything between steampunk to modern fantasy.
I will start with my inspiration and ideas -
I was heavily inspired by the Russian streltsy of the 16th and 17th centuries and their tactics surrounding the "Gulyai-Gorod" or moving forts - basically mobile fortifications that were set up in the field. My personal faction in Tyranoth is heavily based on the Byzantine/Roman Empire particularly the eastern roman empire and is a bit infantry heavy for that reason, and as the timeline in that universe advanced I became perplexed with how to introduce firearms.
In the streltsy I found my inspiration, lightly armored foot troops that were capable of setting up a formidable front as they roamed, instead of Bardiches these troops use tridents in two distinct formats - Tall tridents that double as pikes and short tridents that double as javelin's, they carry swords akin to Kriegsmesser blades and use various patterns of muskets, a typical retinue is also likely to carry a small cannon with them. They mobilize in wagon forts in the march.
I'm excited to share my ideas with you, see yours and see what you think !
I will start with my inspiration and ideas -
I was heavily inspired by the Russian streltsy of the 16th and 17th centuries and their tactics surrounding the "Gulyai-Gorod" or moving forts - basically mobile fortifications that were set up in the field. My personal faction in Tyranoth is heavily based on the Byzantine/Roman Empire particularly the eastern roman empire and is a bit infantry heavy for that reason, and as the timeline in that universe advanced I became perplexed with how to introduce firearms.
In the streltsy I found my inspiration, lightly armored foot troops that were capable of setting up a formidable front as they roamed, instead of Bardiches these troops use tridents in two distinct formats - Tall tridents that double as pikes and short tridents that double as javelin's, they carry swords akin to Kriegsmesser blades and use various patterns of muskets, a typical retinue is also likely to carry a small cannon with them. They mobilize in wagon forts in the march.
I'm excited to share my ideas with you, see yours and see what you think !
Hello, I just want to say that I am also a big fan of the streltsy, and also agree that warhammer fantasy handles firearms in a fantasy setting really well. That aside, I have some thoughts when it comes to guns in fantasy.
First I want to go just off pure historical evidence. Guns are not only historically accurate, but a medieval weapon and were used as early as 1403, with the first battle officially one by gunpowder being the battle of Cerignola in 1503. The medieval period is about 1400's to 1450's, so they actually predate a lot of stuff people associate with fantasy but are actually from the renaissance or regency era.
I also don't think they'd actually be all that over powered. An arquebus isn't going to be nearly as possible as a wizard who can pull asteroids from the skies to destroy a kingdom, rip through groups of enemies with lightning, or create a fireball killing everyone in a 40 foot radius. Even historically guns weren't perfect, assuming they didn't explode in your face, guns weren't always able to actually penetrate armor until later periods. Knights were encouraged to press the tips of their guns against the armor of their enemies and fire point blank, and sometimes it didn't work.
The term "bullet proof" even comes from testing bullets against armor. A blacksmith would make a suit of armor, press a pistol against its breastplate, and shoot it. This would leave an indent in the armor proving that it was "Proofed against bullets." or "Bullet proof." And there's always other solutions to dealing with being shot, such as fortifications, mage armor, healing magic. Granted if you get shot in the head you're likely done for, but the same can be said for most weapons. (Wear your helmets people.)
Of course it could make sense for people in a fantasy to not want guns, at least the people in power, if a bunch of angry peasants get their hands on guns then it could threaten the power structure of a setting. It would be interesting to see a setting where guns exist, but are trying to be phased out by people in power in order to maintain their strangle hold. Kind of like how the church once tried to ban the use of crossbows against christens (But people continued to use them anyway.) Similar events have happened in real life and it would be interesting to see this reflected in writing.
Honestly, I think people don't take guns in fantasy far enough.
Because honestly, you can just give a dragon a magical 20mm rotary cannon firing 3900 rounds a minuet, and no one can stop you.
Rotary cannon dragons seems like a problem? Give some random kingdom man portable top down anti tank weapons with tandem warheads, such as a Javelin missile launcher. Dragons might be fast, but I doubt they're faster than a missile.
Or just knight with a double barrel shotgun. He doesn't need any more development, he's perfect.
It might sound like I'm joking, but I am being 100% serious. Maybe I'm just biased because I write a lot of modern fantasy, but I think we need more guns in fantasy.
First I want to go just off pure historical evidence. Guns are not only historically accurate, but a medieval weapon and were used as early as 1403, with the first battle officially one by gunpowder being the battle of Cerignola in 1503. The medieval period is about 1400's to 1450's, so they actually predate a lot of stuff people associate with fantasy but are actually from the renaissance or regency era.
I also don't think they'd actually be all that over powered. An arquebus isn't going to be nearly as possible as a wizard who can pull asteroids from the skies to destroy a kingdom, rip through groups of enemies with lightning, or create a fireball killing everyone in a 40 foot radius. Even historically guns weren't perfect, assuming they didn't explode in your face, guns weren't always able to actually penetrate armor until later periods. Knights were encouraged to press the tips of their guns against the armor of their enemies and fire point blank, and sometimes it didn't work.
The term "bullet proof" even comes from testing bullets against armor. A blacksmith would make a suit of armor, press a pistol against its breastplate, and shoot it. This would leave an indent in the armor proving that it was "Proofed against bullets." or "Bullet proof." And there's always other solutions to dealing with being shot, such as fortifications, mage armor, healing magic. Granted if you get shot in the head you're likely done for, but the same can be said for most weapons. (Wear your helmets people.)
Of course it could make sense for people in a fantasy to not want guns, at least the people in power, if a bunch of angry peasants get their hands on guns then it could threaten the power structure of a setting. It would be interesting to see a setting where guns exist, but are trying to be phased out by people in power in order to maintain their strangle hold. Kind of like how the church once tried to ban the use of crossbows against christens (But people continued to use them anyway.) Similar events have happened in real life and it would be interesting to see this reflected in writing.
Honestly, I think people don't take guns in fantasy far enough.
Because honestly, you can just give a dragon a magical 20mm rotary cannon firing 3900 rounds a minuet, and no one can stop you.
Rotary cannon dragons seems like a problem? Give some random kingdom man portable top down anti tank weapons with tandem warheads, such as a Javelin missile launcher. Dragons might be fast, but I doubt they're faster than a missile.
Or just knight with a double barrel shotgun. He doesn't need any more development, he's perfect.
It might sound like I'm joking, but I am being 100% serious. Maybe I'm just biased because I write a lot of modern fantasy, but I think we need more guns in fantasy.
That was a very intriguing take RTK and it was a pleasure reading through your deep dive on the place of firearms in fantasy, I have to admit I had a bit of a laugh at the thought of turning a dragon into an A-10 warthog essentially 
that would indeed be a devastating beast. The most I've seen similar is again in Warhammer (the infamous ratling gunners and dwarven skyships no less). We're talking about rifle wielding knights here (trench crusade, wink wink, shrug shrug).
What I also like considering is how different factions would adapt different patterns of firearms and such
For example orderly and ornate Napoleonic elves, rather than use gunpowder they adapted the concept of firearms by essentially making rifles that are the equivalent of magic-powered railguns, allowing for exceptional range if being a bit slower to reload and harder to maintain, powered off a volatile power source, something like crystallized mana - much more potent than standard gunpowder and more resistant to the elements to boot, potentially allowing them to change ammunition types (flameshot etc.) even their bullets shaped a bit more like bodkin arrowheads.
Devastating dwarf ranks that have mastered the art of trench warfare and use their mastery of artillery to devastating effect, perhaps decimating masses of orcs, goblins or ratmen with grapeshot fired from squadron level guns issued en-masse, dwarven rangers hauling around brass mortars to rain havoc upon a foe who encroaches, or moving in and devastating them with the almighty blunderbussy and getting up close and personal with those ancestral axes, perhaps even using large shields as mobile pavise's or as riot shield equivalents when clearing buildings or trenches. I'm thinking impenetrable lines of defense, explosive traps and behemoth war contraptions like skyships or literal mountain splitting karl-geratesque artillery that can delete an orc horde from two hundred leagues away. Few but mighty.
And lets not forget our good old human factions, probably massed volleys and charges, a good mix of all tactics, just devastating their enemies with numbers and sheer firepower pulling out the more elite units if the fighting gets tougher, imagine the sheer terror when you've just cut down waves of imperial infantry and you just hear chug.. chug... chug.. chug... WOO WOOH and this behemoth of brass, iron and fire just pulls up and blows a crater the size of the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs dead center in your fortifications, then just ploughs through a horde of infantry and lets off jets of superheated steam and fire all around, then IT'S OWN CREW abandon it because it is rackety and experimental and then it just nukes itself. Ah, imperial tactics at their finest.
that would indeed be a devastating beast. The most I've seen similar is again in Warhammer (the infamous ratling gunners and dwarven skyships no less). We're talking about rifle wielding knights here (trench crusade, wink wink, shrug shrug).What I also like considering is how different factions would adapt different patterns of firearms and such
For example orderly and ornate Napoleonic elves, rather than use gunpowder they adapted the concept of firearms by essentially making rifles that are the equivalent of magic-powered railguns, allowing for exceptional range if being a bit slower to reload and harder to maintain, powered off a volatile power source, something like crystallized mana - much more potent than standard gunpowder and more resistant to the elements to boot, potentially allowing them to change ammunition types (flameshot etc.) even their bullets shaped a bit more like bodkin arrowheads.
Devastating dwarf ranks that have mastered the art of trench warfare and use their mastery of artillery to devastating effect, perhaps decimating masses of orcs, goblins or ratmen with grapeshot fired from squadron level guns issued en-masse, dwarven rangers hauling around brass mortars to rain havoc upon a foe who encroaches, or moving in and devastating them with the almighty blunderbussy and getting up close and personal with those ancestral axes, perhaps even using large shields as mobile pavise's or as riot shield equivalents when clearing buildings or trenches. I'm thinking impenetrable lines of defense, explosive traps and behemoth war contraptions like skyships or literal mountain splitting karl-geratesque artillery that can delete an orc horde from two hundred leagues away. Few but mighty.
And lets not forget our good old human factions, probably massed volleys and charges, a good mix of all tactics, just devastating their enemies with numbers and sheer firepower pulling out the more elite units if the fighting gets tougher, imagine the sheer terror when you've just cut down waves of imperial infantry and you just hear chug.. chug... chug.. chug... WOO WOOH and this behemoth of brass, iron and fire just pulls up and blows a crater the size of the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs dead center in your fortifications, then just ploughs through a horde of infantry and lets off jets of superheated steam and fire all around, then IT'S OWN CREW abandon it because it is rackety and experimental and then it just nukes itself. Ah, imperial tactics at their finest.
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