So...I was on my Dashboard and I saw a strange little exclamation mark on my 6 extra character slots so I clicked on it, to find out what it meant. It stated that I had over 10 characters after my epic membership was over and I had to pay for my six character slots to be able to, WHAT.... EDIT THEIR PROFILES!? After reading the little warning I thought that was just....
No offense, but that is straight up ridiculous and a rip off!
It completely defeats the purpose of epic membership and I'm not going to spend money to add text and pretty pictures to a character profile, to me that's more like wasting money. I don't see the point of giving a epic membership if you have to pay to EDIT A CHARACTER afterwards, once your epic membership is over.
In my Opinion:
If you really wanted to add anymore characters after the epic memebership is already over, you would have to pay for it. Not pay for something you already have...
Plus, I'm fresh out of money and I can't even earn any money or get a job until I'm 16 and I'm definitely not going to ask anyone to pay for it. Like I said, I find that a total waste of money. I am no sucker... for a couple of extra character profiles. ..
No offense, but that is straight up ridiculous and a rip off!
It completely defeats the purpose of epic membership and I'm not going to spend money to add text and pretty pictures to a character profile, to me that's more like wasting money. I don't see the point of giving a epic membership if you have to pay to EDIT A CHARACTER afterwards, once your epic membership is over.
In my Opinion:
If you really wanted to add anymore characters after the epic memebership is already over, you would have to pay for it. Not pay for something you already have...
Plus, I'm fresh out of money and I can't even earn any money or get a job until I'm 16 and I'm definitely not going to ask anyone to pay for it. Like I said, I find that a total waste of money. I am no sucker... for a couple of extra character profiles. ..
You can simply purchase extra character slots, which are permanent (I realize you can't presently, but it is available for whenever you might be able to) and would allow you to edit those characters again.
The Epic everyone had for a week was a special gift for the site's birthday; you are saying that a gift to the community is a rip-off. How Epic memberships work is very clearly explained.
The money is used to support the site, so that it can continue to exist at all.
The Epic everyone had for a week was a special gift for the site's birthday; you are saying that a gift to the community is a rip-off. How Epic memberships work is very clearly explained.
The money is used to support the site, so that it can continue to exist at all.
Novalynn is correct. Epic membership provides you with 10 extra slots for the duration of your membership. When it's over, you're no longer paying for the extra space your additional characters take up, so they become uneditable.
I understand you're upset that you can't edit your extra characters anymore, but as Nova stated, the epicness was a gift to celebrate the site's birthday. There are still 3 contests going on where you can win Epic Membership if you place.
Remember, all the extra characters you made during your epic membership cost Kim money the moment the membership expires and you get to keep them, even if you can't edit them. Any other site would have deleted your characters or made them inaccessible. Kim is paying for you right now to be able to keep using them to post in groups, forums and PMs with.
Kim wrote:
To the larger point:
Epic member slots and permanent slots are based on the premise that users who use more than the average number of resources from the server should pay for that privilege -- hosting your characters here can be free for you, but the RPR pays for all of the storage space and bandwidth that you use on a monthly basis. We provide that as a free service to the vast majority of members because I'm super nice.
If you are using more than five slots, you are over the average number of characters that most users have, and therefore costing the site more money per month than the average person.
If you are over 10, you are WAY over the average.
(As of this writing, the average user has 2.41 characters on their account.)
There is from a resource use perspective, no difference between characters that are made with your basic account and characters made with your epic account, I'm paying for both.
Since the site is not free to run and would have to close its doors tomorrow if it couldn't pay for itself, I ask that people who are getting the most use out of the site also help to keep it open by purchasing upgrades for their accounts.
I have no incentive to make it easier for people to use more than average server resources for free. In fact, you have no incentive, either. You might think it sounds good to have basic slots and epic slots and be able to swap out as many basic characters as you want even if you have 20 characters and only 10 slots accredited to your account, but it sounds a lot less awesome when you realize that the option is actually I make it hard for people to use more than average the resources for free or I close the site and nobody gets anything.
So in conclusion, I think the current system is extremely fair and actually very generous in that by not deleting surplus characters when you no longer have the slots to support them, we're letting you use way more than the average users' allotment of resources for free for an indefinite or infinite amount of time if you choose not to re-up.
Epic member slots and permanent slots are based on the premise that users who use more than the average number of resources from the server should pay for that privilege -- hosting your characters here can be free for you, but the RPR pays for all of the storage space and bandwidth that you use on a monthly basis. We provide that as a free service to the vast majority of members because I'm super nice.
If you are using more than five slots, you are over the average number of characters that most users have, and therefore costing the site more money per month than the average person.
If you are over 10, you are WAY over the average.
(As of this writing, the average user has 2.41 characters on their account.)
There is from a resource use perspective, no difference between characters that are made with your basic account and characters made with your epic account, I'm paying for both.
Since the site is not free to run and would have to close its doors tomorrow if it couldn't pay for itself, I ask that people who are getting the most use out of the site also help to keep it open by purchasing upgrades for their accounts.
I have no incentive to make it easier for people to use more than average server resources for free. In fact, you have no incentive, either. You might think it sounds good to have basic slots and epic slots and be able to swap out as many basic characters as you want even if you have 20 characters and only 10 slots accredited to your account, but it sounds a lot less awesome when you realize that the option is actually I make it hard for people to use more than average the resources for free or I close the site and nobody gets anything.
So in conclusion, I think the current system is extremely fair and actually very generous in that by not deleting surplus characters when you no longer have the slots to support them, we're letting you use way more than the average users' allotment of resources for free for an indefinite or infinite amount of time if you choose not to re-up.
I understand you're upset that you can't edit your extra characters anymore, but as Nova stated, the epicness was a gift to celebrate the site's birthday. There are still 3 contests going on where you can win Epic Membership if you place.
Remember, all the extra characters you made during your epic membership cost Kim money the moment the membership expires and you get to keep them, even if you can't edit them. Any other site would have deleted your characters or made them inaccessible. Kim is paying for you right now to be able to keep using them to post in groups, forums and PMs with.
Not all of us adults can buy things whenever we like. Some of us are actually pretty broke. 
But the same is true of plenty other things. Games and services don't just become cheaper or free for for those too young to get an official job. It's simply something everyone has to deal with, I'm afraid.
But the same is true of plenty other things. Games and services don't just become cheaper or free for for those too young to get an official job. It's simply something everyone has to deal with, I'm afraid.
That's why the site is free to use for all the basic slots and features. Epicness is not mandatory and not having it doesn't stop you from creating profiles, roleplaying them and doing everything else. It just limits the amount of characters and gallery images and such because bandwith is freaking expensive. If Kim could afford it, she'd lovingly give everyone infinite resources forever. But she can't, because RPR costs money and the money has to come from somewhere.
I fully understand that people may not have the money for it, but this topic is the equivalent of being angry with a car dealership for letting you test drive a car, then getting angry when you have to buy the car in order to keep using it. It just doesn't work that way.
An extra note: I often can't afford Epicness myself. Bills and food come first and there's very little left at the end of the month for me to spend on things. But I do make an effort to utilize all the opportunities presented to me. This year, we had a contest where all you had to do was post a link to RPR on a social media website or anywhere else to get a chance of winning half a year's worth of Epicness among other things. It's that easy, yet a lot of people never participate. I believe that if you don't even bother trying to participate in these annual no-brainer no-talent raffles, you really don't have much of a right to complain about not being able to get Epicness.
I fully understand that people may not have the money for it, but this topic is the equivalent of being angry with a car dealership for letting you test drive a car, then getting angry when you have to buy the car in order to keep using it. It just doesn't work that way.
An extra note: I often can't afford Epicness myself. Bills and food come first and there's very little left at the end of the month for me to spend on things. But I do make an effort to utilize all the opportunities presented to me. This year, we had a contest where all you had to do was post a link to RPR on a social media website or anywhere else to get a chance of winning half a year's worth of Epicness among other things. It's that easy, yet a lot of people never participate. I believe that if you don't even bother trying to participate in these annual no-brainer no-talent raffles, you really don't have much of a right to complain about not being able to get Epicness.
I moved this out of "Help" and into "Suggestions & Development" since you aren't really asking a question, you are voicing an opinion about how you want the site to work.
To address your actual point: I am puzzled by this reaction. I think it's generous that extra characters continue to be housed on the site at all when a user is no longer paying for the privilege of having extras. The other option I looked at was having surplus characters be outright deleted after a grace period of non-renewal. Economically speaking, we should do that, because the storage adds up and forces us to upgrade to better hosting plans regularly. Do you know you can still post on the forums and send PMs as locked characters? I bent over backwards to not disrupt people's RPs, even after they were no longer paying for those characters.
In a nutshell, hosting your characters here can be free for you, but the RPR pays for all of the storage space and bandwidth that you use on a monthly basis. We provide that as a free service to the vast majority of members because I'm super nice. Epic member slots and permanent slots are based on the premise that users who use more than the average number of resources from the server should pay for that privilege.
If you are using more than five slots, you are over the average number of characters that most users have, and therefore costing the site more money per month than the average person. If you are over 10, you are WAY over the average. (As of this writing, the average user has 2.25 characters on their account.) That means that an Epic member with just 11 characters is using about 450% more resources than the average user.
The lifeblood of the site, the reason it can continue to afford to exist for all players, is people subscribing as Epic members. Epic members pay a very small fee per month (about the cost of a slice of pizza and a soft drink, maybe two slices of pizza depending on what city you live in) to get access to a wide array of "thank you" perks. This includes ten extra slots for characters, but also runs the gambit of things like being able to customize the look of their player profile. In fact, the vast majority of people with Epic memberships never make over ten characters. A lot of them subscribe with the intention of supporting the site, or because they want the ads removed, or because they think custom profile colors is super fab. Without these monthly subscribers, the RPR would have to close its doors tomorrow.
Of course, I understand you might not want to have to pay forever, or maybe you just want the extra character slots but not all the other extra things -- for those people we offer permanent character slots that can be purchased à la carte. These are pricier than a single month of Epicness because they are intended to cover the lifetime cost of housing those characters, but are still pretty affordable as they don't come with all the extra stuff. People who buy à la carte are also doing something to keep the site open and free for everyone, and they absolutely have my undying gratitude, but it is not the same as the support Epic Members provides for the site.
If it's not worth it to you, I totally understand. I've definitely been in situations where I couldn't spend money on games. But you have to understand, I'm in a situation where I can't give infinite free characters to the world. I set the limit of "charity" characters I'm willing to pay for at 10, and expect people who want more to chip in to help support the site as a whole. If this is not something you can do, that's perfectly okay, but understand that means someone else is paying for all your characters to live here.
I think this policy of how Epic characters work is very clearly detailed in the Epic Membership FAQ, and even on the store page where the list of perks says "and get all these great perks for as long as they maintain their Epicness...", so it's not like we're blind-siding or tricking anyone. Permanent extra character slots are the next item on the page, for people who don't like temporary.
If you didn't see any of this because you got your Epicness from the free week given out as part of our anniversary celebration... I'm sorry you didn't like your gift. It seemed like most people enjoyed changing up the look of their profiles and not seeing ads. And yes, some people did make a bunch of extra characters. But it would be suicide for me to make Epic Membership slots permanent. As Sanne mentioned, there are currently a bunch of ways to win some Epicness or slots if you are short on cash.
A person's age or financial situation doesn't change how much it costs me for that person to be on the site. Many adults cannot buy Epicness whenever they please, either. That too doesn't change how much it costs me to run the site.
Epicness is a luxury. It's not medical care or food that I need to give out to people to keep them from dying. Quite the opposite -- it's what members do to keep the site alive. The perks are a thank you for those that do manage to support all the rest of us being able to be here. So I'm not sure why it matters whether an individual of any age can or can't afford it. You have 10 characters for free -- that's 7.75 more slots than the average member ever uses, so arguably it is extremely generous!
Really, I'm perfectly okay with you feeling that it is not worth it to you. I've used many sites and played many games that I liked very much, but it just wasn't worth it to me to invest in them for one reason or another, whether that was personal preference or financial or whatever. I don't take it personally. But I find it very strange to take the stance that my not wanting to pay for everyone's characters myself is a rip off. It seems like I'd be being ripped off if I didn't ask for people using AT LEAST 450% more resources than most other users to pitch in.
To address your actual point: I am puzzled by this reaction. I think it's generous that extra characters continue to be housed on the site at all when a user is no longer paying for the privilege of having extras. The other option I looked at was having surplus characters be outright deleted after a grace period of non-renewal. Economically speaking, we should do that, because the storage adds up and forces us to upgrade to better hosting plans regularly. Do you know you can still post on the forums and send PMs as locked characters? I bent over backwards to not disrupt people's RPs, even after they were no longer paying for those characters.
In a nutshell, hosting your characters here can be free for you, but the RPR pays for all of the storage space and bandwidth that you use on a monthly basis. We provide that as a free service to the vast majority of members because I'm super nice. Epic member slots and permanent slots are based on the premise that users who use more than the average number of resources from the server should pay for that privilege.
If you are using more than five slots, you are over the average number of characters that most users have, and therefore costing the site more money per month than the average person. If you are over 10, you are WAY over the average. (As of this writing, the average user has 2.25 characters on their account.) That means that an Epic member with just 11 characters is using about 450% more resources than the average user.
The lifeblood of the site, the reason it can continue to afford to exist for all players, is people subscribing as Epic members. Epic members pay a very small fee per month (about the cost of a slice of pizza and a soft drink, maybe two slices of pizza depending on what city you live in) to get access to a wide array of "thank you" perks. This includes ten extra slots for characters, but also runs the gambit of things like being able to customize the look of their player profile. In fact, the vast majority of people with Epic memberships never make over ten characters. A lot of them subscribe with the intention of supporting the site, or because they want the ads removed, or because they think custom profile colors is super fab. Without these monthly subscribers, the RPR would have to close its doors tomorrow.
Of course, I understand you might not want to have to pay forever, or maybe you just want the extra character slots but not all the other extra things -- for those people we offer permanent character slots that can be purchased à la carte. These are pricier than a single month of Epicness because they are intended to cover the lifetime cost of housing those characters, but are still pretty affordable as they don't come with all the extra stuff. People who buy à la carte are also doing something to keep the site open and free for everyone, and they absolutely have my undying gratitude, but it is not the same as the support Epic Members provides for the site.
SUNDROP wrote:
Plus, I'm fresh out of money and I can't even earn any money or get a job until I'm 16 and I'm definitely not going to ask anyone to pay for it. Like I said, I find that a total waste of money. I am no sucker... for a couple of extra character profiles. ..
If it's not worth it to you, I totally understand. I've definitely been in situations where I couldn't spend money on games. But you have to understand, I'm in a situation where I can't give infinite free characters to the world. I set the limit of "charity" characters I'm willing to pay for at 10, and expect people who want more to chip in to help support the site as a whole. If this is not something you can do, that's perfectly okay, but understand that means someone else is paying for all your characters to live here.
I think this policy of how Epic characters work is very clearly detailed in the Epic Membership FAQ, and even on the store page where the list of perks says "and get all these great perks for as long as they maintain their Epicness...", so it's not like we're blind-siding or tricking anyone. Permanent extra character slots are the next item on the page, for people who don't like temporary.
If you didn't see any of this because you got your Epicness from the free week given out as part of our anniversary celebration... I'm sorry you didn't like your gift. It seemed like most people enjoyed changing up the look of their profiles and not seeing ads. And yes, some people did make a bunch of extra characters. But it would be suicide for me to make Epic Membership slots permanent. As Sanne mentioned, there are currently a bunch of ways to win some Epicness or slots if you are short on cash.
ForsakenAngel wrote:
Not trying to be rude or anything since I do understand how the site works and it does make sense. However unlike the adults on here who can buy Epic whenever they please some if not most of the younger members can't since most don't have jobs and I personally know a few whose parents won't give them the money because they claim anything you buy online that you cannot actually touch is a rip off. Even with having the gift Epic that doesn't mean someone is gonna buy them Epic anytime they want or have them pay for it when most wouldn't have a paypal and so on....
A person's age or financial situation doesn't change how much it costs me for that person to be on the site. Many adults cannot buy Epicness whenever they please, either. That too doesn't change how much it costs me to run the site.
Epicness is a luxury. It's not medical care or food that I need to give out to people to keep them from dying. Quite the opposite -- it's what members do to keep the site alive. The perks are a thank you for those that do manage to support all the rest of us being able to be here. So I'm not sure why it matters whether an individual of any age can or can't afford it. You have 10 characters for free -- that's 7.75 more slots than the average member ever uses, so arguably it is extremely generous!
Really, I'm perfectly okay with you feeling that it is not worth it to you. I've used many sites and played many games that I liked very much, but it just wasn't worth it to me to invest in them for one reason or another, whether that was personal preference or financial or whatever. I don't take it personally. But I find it very strange to take the stance that my not wanting to pay for everyone's characters myself is a rip off. It seems like I'd be being ripped off if I didn't ask for people using AT LEAST 450% more resources than most other users to pitch in.
I personally don't consider it to be a rip off at all. I have never purchased epicness, but I did buy 5 character slots as I was having problems managing my characters. Right now I am using all 10 free slots, but just a few hours ago I was using eleven slots. I used to have more characters, but then I had to drop out of some group rps because of the fact that my grandma was in the hospital and I had about 13-14 characters before that.
Sundrop, first of all, the way you approached this issue was extremely rude to not only Kim, but to this entire community. And I think you owe everyone an apology for that.
Secondly, don't blame your ignorance on the fact you're too young to have a job. The rules of Epic memberships are CLEARLY laid out as it has been pointed out several times now.
And, I'd like to point out, you can get a job as young as 14 with a worker's permit in most states. I started working fast food when I was 14 through that method. If you really want a job so you can actually pay for things you want, like a permanent extra character slot, then go to your school councilor and find out how to get a permit and get a job.
This may just be an age thing, but did you honestly expect to be able to keep every function of the epic membership once it was expired? It's like ANYTHING you have to pay for in life. Thats like going to the movies, then getting pissed at the theater that once it's over you can't stay to watch it or another movie. Life just doesn't work that way. You have to update your car's tag every year as well - are you going to complain to the police when they pull you over that you shouldn't have to do it again because it's a rip off? Or when your license expires? Or, hell, being a college student! You may pay for your tuition for the semester, but guess what? Once that semester is up it's time to pay up again. Let this be a life lesson to you. The world isn't free.
As it has been pointed out before, you are VERY lucky you can still have those characters at all. Most places would have just nuked them. Even on Furcadia, the game a large chunk of the users here play. If you don't use your character for 6 months and renew after the warning (although it's free) then they delete it. Permanently. It simply costs way too much.
It sucks that it doesn't work in the ideal way you would like and we all realize that, but don't insult everyone by saying it's a rip off or trying to blame it on other reasons. Those of us who do pay for a membership are helping keep the site alive, and by saying it's not worth it, that it's a rip off, is saying the hard earned money we've put forward means nothing. And I don't appreciate that at all. I can't afford the year's worth, sometimes not even the 3 month one. For a while I had to pay month by month. I don't use it for anything fancy since I can deck out a character page easily without a membership. I use it to support this place because I love it and I want to see it continue to thrive. I'm proud to be a member here, I'm utterly grateful beyond words to be one of the template makers and it thrills me to see my hard work on display for everyone here to use and enjoy. And you saying the Epicness is a rip off is like a slap in the face to me, as I'm sure it is to everyone else who contributes here.
So, next time you are given something extra or special for free, it might be smart on your end to actually read up on what happens when that extra thing is done, and not complain to everyone about the fact you can't use it anymore.
That is simply my humble opinion, since you have stated yours.
Secondly, don't blame your ignorance on the fact you're too young to have a job. The rules of Epic memberships are CLEARLY laid out as it has been pointed out several times now.
And, I'd like to point out, you can get a job as young as 14 with a worker's permit in most states. I started working fast food when I was 14 through that method. If you really want a job so you can actually pay for things you want, like a permanent extra character slot, then go to your school councilor and find out how to get a permit and get a job.
This may just be an age thing, but did you honestly expect to be able to keep every function of the epic membership once it was expired? It's like ANYTHING you have to pay for in life. Thats like going to the movies, then getting pissed at the theater that once it's over you can't stay to watch it or another movie. Life just doesn't work that way. You have to update your car's tag every year as well - are you going to complain to the police when they pull you over that you shouldn't have to do it again because it's a rip off? Or when your license expires? Or, hell, being a college student! You may pay for your tuition for the semester, but guess what? Once that semester is up it's time to pay up again. Let this be a life lesson to you. The world isn't free.
As it has been pointed out before, you are VERY lucky you can still have those characters at all. Most places would have just nuked them. Even on Furcadia, the game a large chunk of the users here play. If you don't use your character for 6 months and renew after the warning (although it's free) then they delete it. Permanently. It simply costs way too much.
It sucks that it doesn't work in the ideal way you would like and we all realize that, but don't insult everyone by saying it's a rip off or trying to blame it on other reasons. Those of us who do pay for a membership are helping keep the site alive, and by saying it's not worth it, that it's a rip off, is saying the hard earned money we've put forward means nothing. And I don't appreciate that at all. I can't afford the year's worth, sometimes not even the 3 month one. For a while I had to pay month by month. I don't use it for anything fancy since I can deck out a character page easily without a membership. I use it to support this place because I love it and I want to see it continue to thrive. I'm proud to be a member here, I'm utterly grateful beyond words to be one of the template makers and it thrills me to see my hard work on display for everyone here to use and enjoy. And you saying the Epicness is a rip off is like a slap in the face to me, as I'm sure it is to everyone else who contributes here.
So, next time you are given something extra or special for free, it might be smart on your end to actually read up on what happens when that extra thing is done, and not complain to everyone about the fact you can't use it anymore.
That is simply my humble opinion, since you have stated yours.
I am just going to point out that this site hosts over 20722 characters... Now I am not sure how much each character costs but if Kim says that one extra character costs 450% more resources that is an insane amount regardless how much she is paying as even if each character was only about ten cents a month, thats over two THOUSAND dollars! (NOT counting the whole 450% increase!) and thats monthly, it might even be weekly (or yearly but I dont think thats the case) To put that in retrospect the average price of a rental car is 45-65 dollars a day! And it only comes upto 1350$ for 45$ in thirty days! or 1950$ for the 65 dollar option! Yes this website probably takes more money to run than a car, Now that might not seem like much but this is just characters, IF they even cost 10 cents each. There is also the web hosting, Maintenance and when you go Epic that means no ads, And I am pretty sure that means Kim loses money because those people do not get those annoying ads.
And running a website is not easy, Its time consuming as well! Updating, Bug fixes, Helping people, We also have to take into account that she has other expenses in life not just this website. IF she lives on her own she has transportation costs, Food water electricity cable internet taxes and other things like maybe buying gifts for friends or family, She works a lot I am sure to keep this site alive because she has such a devotion too it, She could be (And probably is) working a full time job to keep herself in a home will food and water and power AND keeping this website up and running.
Just remember, You are are Fourteen you dont need to pay taxes and such, So it may seem like a rip off too you, But to other who understand how hard it is to make money and do all this and stay in the black and not the red, It does not seem like a rip off at all
And running a website is not easy, Its time consuming as well! Updating, Bug fixes, Helping people, We also have to take into account that she has other expenses in life not just this website. IF she lives on her own she has transportation costs, Food water electricity cable internet taxes and other things like maybe buying gifts for friends or family, She works a lot I am sure to keep this site alive because she has such a devotion too it, She could be (And probably is) working a full time job to keep herself in a home will food and water and power AND keeping this website up and running.
Just remember, You are are Fourteen you dont need to pay taxes and such, So it may seem like a rip off too you, But to other who understand how hard it is to make money and do all this and stay in the black and not the red, It does not seem like a rip off at all
Chris_Pike wrote:
if Kim says that one extra character costs 450% more resources
Just to be clear: 450% more is 11 characters versus the site-wide average of 2.25 characters, not the step up per one character. However, your point is well taken.
Topic locked at the request of the OP, who doesn't want to discuss it further.
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