Hey. So, I haven't been around here for a while (no particular reason, I just hit my 10 character limit, and then a while later fell out of the habit of logging onto furcadia, where most of my characters are based...). Came back to do some housecleaning, free up some slots, and was gonna put up some new characters from more recent RPs I'm in.
At any rate, I set out to input a new character and I noticed something: Gender Selection. Now, the options listed are Female, Male, Hermaphrodite, and Other. It's great that the site recognizes nonbinary characters, and I do remember adding (or going to add? I can't remember, it's been years) my non-binary drider, and I remember seeing the "Other" option then.
But anyways. Hermaphrodite made me flinch. I can't remember if that was always an option, or if it was originally just Female/Male/Other, but... while historically, it was a medically correct term to use, even for humans (well, biologically speaking, only pseudohermaphroditism is documented in humans), it was later changed to 'intersex'.
In this day and age, hermaphrodite is primarily used with a negative connotation. It can actually be considered a very offensive slur against intersexed individuals. I know that not everyone is RPing a human, and some races actually display true hermaphroditism, but I was wondering if you'd consider changing the option to "Intersex" instead, which would then cover a spectrum of pseudohermaphroditic characters? (To put it into context: "retard" used to be a medical term, but now it's a slur.)
As a transgendered person myself (though not intersexed), it really put me a bit ill at ease.
(Also if it interests you, though I understand on keeping the list short: the list could be expanded to cover Female, Male, Intersex (individuals of both sex), Neuter (individuals of neither sex), Other. Just a thought.)
At any rate, I set out to input a new character and I noticed something: Gender Selection. Now, the options listed are Female, Male, Hermaphrodite, and Other. It's great that the site recognizes nonbinary characters, and I do remember adding (or going to add? I can't remember, it's been years) my non-binary drider, and I remember seeing the "Other" option then.
But anyways. Hermaphrodite made me flinch. I can't remember if that was always an option, or if it was originally just Female/Male/Other, but... while historically, it was a medically correct term to use, even for humans (well, biologically speaking, only pseudohermaphroditism is documented in humans), it was later changed to 'intersex'.
In this day and age, hermaphrodite is primarily used with a negative connotation. It can actually be considered a very offensive slur against intersexed individuals. I know that not everyone is RPing a human, and some races actually display true hermaphroditism, but I was wondering if you'd consider changing the option to "Intersex" instead, which would then cover a spectrum of pseudohermaphroditic characters? (To put it into context: "retard" used to be a medical term, but now it's a slur.)
As a transgendered person myself (though not intersexed), it really put me a bit ill at ease.
(Also if it interests you, though I understand on keeping the list short: the list could be expanded to cover Female, Male, Intersex (individuals of both sex), Neuter (individuals of neither sex), Other. Just a thought.)
Good afternoon, AJ!
As far as I can remember, the reason 'hermaphrodite' is on the list is primarily because of this character, which species-wise is indeed a hermaphrodite, last I checked. There may be a small number of truly hermaphroditic characters to necessitate that one selection, but that's a matter you'd have to talk to the admin about.
One day it probably will be important and necessary to add on to the character gender selections, but the inclusion of hermaphrodite certainly wasn't intended to cause offense, and we're terribly sorry it rubs you the wrong way and understand why it does! :C People have come to us about expanding or changing the list before, so it is something we have considered in the past, though admittedly I believe it's a bit low on the list of site changes that actually are super-duper insanely necessary right now. Maybe one day soon Kim can set some time aside and figure out the 'how' to the gender list, and you certainly have some good suggestions for how we could hop to this.
As far as I can remember, the reason 'hermaphrodite' is on the list is primarily because of this character, which species-wise is indeed a hermaphrodite, last I checked. There may be a small number of truly hermaphroditic characters to necessitate that one selection, but that's a matter you'd have to talk to the admin about.
One day it probably will be important and necessary to add on to the character gender selections, but the inclusion of hermaphrodite certainly wasn't intended to cause offense, and we're terribly sorry it rubs you the wrong way and understand why it does! :C People have come to us about expanding or changing the list before, so it is something we have considered in the past, though admittedly I believe it's a bit low on the list of site changes that actually are super-duper insanely necessary right now. Maybe one day soon Kim can set some time aside and figure out the 'how' to the gender list, and you certainly have some good suggestions for how we could hop to this.
Copper_Dragon wrote:
Good afternoon, AJ!
As far as I can remember, the reason 'hermaphrodite' is on the list is primarily because of this character, which species-wise is indeed a hermaphrodite, last I checked. There may be a small number of truly hermaphroditic characters to necessitate that one selection, but that's a matter you'd have to talk to the admin about.
One day it probably will be important and necessary to add on to the character gender selections, but the inclusion of hermaphrodite certainly wasn't intended to cause offense, and we're terribly sorry it rubs you the wrong way and understand why it does! :C People have come to us about expanding or changing the list before, so it is something we have considered in the past, though admittedly I believe it's a bit low on the list of site changes that actually are super-duper insanely necessary right now. Maybe one day soon Kim can set some time aside and figure out the 'how' to the gender list, and you certainly have some good suggestions for how we could hop to this.
As far as I can remember, the reason 'hermaphrodite' is on the list is primarily because of this character, which species-wise is indeed a hermaphrodite, last I checked. There may be a small number of truly hermaphroditic characters to necessitate that one selection, but that's a matter you'd have to talk to the admin about.
One day it probably will be important and necessary to add on to the character gender selections, but the inclusion of hermaphrodite certainly wasn't intended to cause offense, and we're terribly sorry it rubs you the wrong way and understand why it does! :C People have come to us about expanding or changing the list before, so it is something we have considered in the past, though admittedly I believe it's a bit low on the list of site changes that actually are super-duper insanely necessary right now. Maybe one day soon Kim can set some time aside and figure out the 'how' to the gender list, and you certainly have some good suggestions for how we could hop to this.
The reason I suggested intersex as an alternative, is because it's more an inclusive term for hermaphroditic and pseudohermaphroditic. It is kinda tricky because snails are true hermaphrodites, and 'intersex' is sort of only associated with humans/humanoids. The last paragraph was just an afterthought as Hermaphrodite implies 'can procreate'/shows both sexes/can change between sexes, while Neuter straight up cannot procreate/shows no sex whatsoever.
Thanks for the quick response, though.
Hallo! I felt I needed to add my piece here as this is something of particular importance to me.
While I disagree that the term is inherently offensive when used in a biological context, I do strongly believe that it is offensively misplaced and that the gender selection does needs to be addressed. This is after all a site about characters and celebrating the diversity of our creative natures, so this should be something a little higher priority than it currently stands!
However, I feel a different solution than the suggested is desirable. See, male and female can refer to both gender and sex, but what many seem unaware of is that these are separate descriptors. The term hermaphrodite or intersex is referring to a physical sex and has nothing to do with gender.
An intersexed individual may identify as male, female, third gender, androgynous, genderfluid, or any one of many descriptors that the very broad spectrum of gender offers. I am physically of female sex, but identify as agender, removed entirely from the spectrum rather than simply non-binary.
In associating gender with sex there is a silent affirmation of misinformation. While this is a concern for few people given that not many in any given group identify outside the binary or even have characters along those lines, it is a drop in the bucket that feeds misconception. Every drop really does count and it really does matter to those of us directly aware of these issues.
While having 'other' is an acceptable option and does cover the entirety of the non-binary, the addition of hermaphrodite is definitely worthy of a cringe. I would very strongly suggest it be removed or the category be appropriately renamed as 'sex' rather than 'gender' if adding a proper slew of additional 'other' options isn't desirable.
Facebook did a pretty decent job of addressing this for real people, though. Intersex unfortunately being included aside. 8) As ridiculous as it seems it still strikes me as more functional than an open text box and more inclusive than the hand wave that is 'other'.
While I disagree that the term is inherently offensive when used in a biological context, I do strongly believe that it is offensively misplaced and that the gender selection does needs to be addressed. This is after all a site about characters and celebrating the diversity of our creative natures, so this should be something a little higher priority than it currently stands!
However, I feel a different solution than the suggested is desirable. See, male and female can refer to both gender and sex, but what many seem unaware of is that these are separate descriptors. The term hermaphrodite or intersex is referring to a physical sex and has nothing to do with gender.
An intersexed individual may identify as male, female, third gender, androgynous, genderfluid, or any one of many descriptors that the very broad spectrum of gender offers. I am physically of female sex, but identify as agender, removed entirely from the spectrum rather than simply non-binary.
In associating gender with sex there is a silent affirmation of misinformation. While this is a concern for few people given that not many in any given group identify outside the binary or even have characters along those lines, it is a drop in the bucket that feeds misconception. Every drop really does count and it really does matter to those of us directly aware of these issues.
While having 'other' is an acceptable option and does cover the entirety of the non-binary, the addition of hermaphrodite is definitely worthy of a cringe. I would very strongly suggest it be removed or the category be appropriately renamed as 'sex' rather than 'gender' if adding a proper slew of additional 'other' options isn't desirable.
Facebook did a pretty decent job of addressing this for real people, though. Intersex unfortunately being included aside. 8) As ridiculous as it seems it still strikes me as more functional than an open text box and more inclusive than the hand wave that is 'other'.
Tailbone wrote:
Hallo! I felt I needed to add my piece here as this is something of particular importance to me.
While I disagree that the term is inherently offensive when used in a biological context, I do strongly believe that it is offensively misplaced and that the gender selection does needs to be addressed.
...
While I disagree that the term is inherently offensive when used in a biological context, I do strongly believe that it is offensively misplaced and that the gender selection does needs to be addressed.
...
I did find it really out of place initially, because I do use that drop down for Gender specifically (I'm used to lots of sites mixing up Gender and Sex, though. But yes, many intersex people do identify to a binary, which makes the dropdown even more bothersome and confusing, by including both sex and gender as one). I'm honestly not a fan of putting down my characters' or my own sex, because I feel it's a personal thing, and if they're not presenting as their sex, why plaster it everywhere unless they want to. I know it's there in part because people browsing characters want to be able to eliminate potential RP partners quickly, hence why it's in the miniprofiles in search results. I would stick with Gender over Sex, though. Even though it gets more confusing/ends with a lot more terms. I suppose Nonbinary as a third option sounds nice. But in the end, an all-inclusive 'Other' makes it sound like 'Gender that Matters', 'Other Gender that Matters', 'Everyone Else'.
I personally am happy with the fact hermaphrodite is listed. These are characters we are talking about - fictional beings, not real people identifying as intersex. Quite often these characters have fully functioning male and female reproductive systems, which is a physiologic impossibility in humans. There's a huge difference between applying it to a character and calling a real person this.
I've been active in/observing the furry community for over a decade. Herms are pretty much a standard in this area. Shi/hir are common terms used by many hermaphrodite fursona players. Even when characters identify as male, female or whatever other gender they prefer, they are still considered herms in the furry fandom.
Furthermore, the idea that being called a hermaphrodite is offense is vastly dependent on the type of person. Some mind, others don't - in the four years this site has existed, this is the first time anyone has announced the term as being offensive, and I'm quite surprised that people are backing this statement up.
As the gender listing we're talking to applies to characters and not the players, considering that many characters such as Naln are depicted as true hermaphrodites there's nothing offensive about the term. It's factually accurate! I'm not sure why it's being considered to be offensive when it's such a hugely common term in every roleplaying community I've seen to begin with. I've never considered it such and I've never heard of anyone finding offense in it either.
Edit: Genders and sex are often very complex things. I sometimes struggle to understand everything about it and I'm definitely not a stranger in the area considering my own sexuality and the type of people I've dated or been interested in. The site is used by people of many ages - as young as 13 year olds. Do we really need to make the system more complex than it has to be by using terms that aren't immediately clear to their meaning? Because I can honestly tell you that 'intersex' sounds very vague and can be very confusing. Hermaphrodite on the other hand is a pretty distinct and clear term that simply means 'of both sexes equally'.
The word 'sex' can also be potentially troublesome on a site catering to 13 year olds (because some people aren't very smart and make a huge stink over nothing). "The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably." - There's inherently nothing wrong with using gender to depict the physical sex either.
I've been active in/observing the furry community for over a decade. Herms are pretty much a standard in this area. Shi/hir are common terms used by many hermaphrodite fursona players. Even when characters identify as male, female or whatever other gender they prefer, they are still considered herms in the furry fandom.
Furthermore, the idea that being called a hermaphrodite is offense is vastly dependent on the type of person. Some mind, others don't - in the four years this site has existed, this is the first time anyone has announced the term as being offensive, and I'm quite surprised that people are backing this statement up.
As the gender listing we're talking to applies to characters and not the players, considering that many characters such as Naln are depicted as true hermaphrodites there's nothing offensive about the term. It's factually accurate! I'm not sure why it's being considered to be offensive when it's such a hugely common term in every roleplaying community I've seen to begin with. I've never considered it such and I've never heard of anyone finding offense in it either.
Edit: Genders and sex are often very complex things. I sometimes struggle to understand everything about it and I'm definitely not a stranger in the area considering my own sexuality and the type of people I've dated or been interested in. The site is used by people of many ages - as young as 13 year olds. Do we really need to make the system more complex than it has to be by using terms that aren't immediately clear to their meaning? Because I can honestly tell you that 'intersex' sounds very vague and can be very confusing. Hermaphrodite on the other hand is a pretty distinct and clear term that simply means 'of both sexes equally'.
The word 'sex' can also be potentially troublesome on a site catering to 13 year olds (because some people aren't very smart and make a huge stink over nothing). "The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably." - There's inherently nothing wrong with using gender to depict the physical sex either.
Hi guys,
There's actually a planned solution to this issue already in the development list. We will be moving to male/female/none/write in sometime in the next few months, hopefully using a community curated white list much like Facebook. I do not plan to prevent people from writing in hermaphrodite as the site is overflowing with non human characters for whom this is a fully accurate term (and for whom intersex would be inaccurate).
http://www.rprepository.com/development/developmentTask.php?task=243 Vote it up!
Also, the selection was at one time labeled "sex" (on characters only I think) but got changed to gender when I got a huge number of bug reports saying that the editing pages would only partially load, and eventually discovered that this was happening to people with nanny software or on work/public wifi that stopped loading any page if it detected the word sex. The move to calling it gender stopped people from being locked out when they tried to access us from a coffee shop.
There's actually a planned solution to this issue already in the development list. We will be moving to male/female/none/write in sometime in the next few months, hopefully using a community curated white list much like Facebook. I do not plan to prevent people from writing in hermaphrodite as the site is overflowing with non human characters for whom this is a fully accurate term (and for whom intersex would be inaccurate).
http://www.rprepository.com/development/developmentTask.php?task=243 Vote it up!
Also, the selection was at one time labeled "sex" (on characters only I think) but got changed to gender when I got a huge number of bug reports saying that the editing pages would only partially load, and eventually discovered that this was happening to people with nanny software or on work/public wifi that stopped loading any page if it detected the word sex. The move to calling it gender stopped people from being locked out when they tried to access us from a coffee shop.
Also as a point of trivia, hermaphrodite has been a character gender/sex option since day one (it was indeed my snail character that inspired it).
Tossing this out here that gender is a preferred term over sex due to transphobia. Also, intersex people exist. The entire reason (notreally - I just happened to push for it - I'm sure Kim wanted it well before I popped in) the new feature exists that Kim is asking you to vote up is because, frankly, I was disgusted that herm, a slur when used toward people, was an option but trans or intersex had to go under binary markers or other/none. While it's since been cleared up as to why it's ok. For herm to exist as an option re: non-human characters, I'm just a tad 'eeeehhhhhh' to see someone advocating the slur over a term used to accurately describe real people.
But seriously, go vote that feature up! I'm only too eager for it.
But seriously, go vote that feature up! I'm only too eager for it.
Masha gets a ton of credit for this idea, yes indeedly! It was not on my radar previously.
Awwhhh yes, this would be such a wonderful addition, I think. ;v;.
Though Kim, when you mentioned the "male/female/none/write" did you mean 'write' to be to write one that isn't listed?
I'm half asleep so forgive me for being ridiculously outta it right now, ahah.
This thread makes me really, really happy though. It just goes to show how sweet and accommodating some people can really be.
I think for now though, what we could do is hide the basics and then add it all in manually. Maybe that'd work while this is being discussed/worked on/whatever else? O:
Though Kim, when you mentioned the "male/female/none/write" did you mean 'write' to be to write one that isn't listed?
I'm half asleep so forgive me for being ridiculously outta it right now, ahah.
This thread makes me really, really happy though. It just goes to show how sweet and accommodating some people can really be.
I think for now though, what we could do is hide the basics and then add it all in manually. Maybe that'd work while this is being discussed/worked on/whatever else? O:
Masha wrote:
Tossing this out here that gender is a preferred term over sex due to transphobia. Also, intersex people exist. The entire reason (notreally - I just happened to push for it - I'm sure Kim wanted it well before I popped in) the new feature exists that Kim is asking you to vote up is because, frankly, I was disgusted that herm, a slur when used toward people, was an option but trans or intersex had to go under binary markers or other/none. While it's since been cleared up as to why it's ok. For herm to exist as an option re: non-human characters, I'm just a tad 'eeeehhhhhh' to see someone advocating the slur over a term used to accurately describe real people.
But seriously, go vote that feature up! I'm only too eager for it.
But seriously, go vote that feature up! I'm only too eager for it.
Nobody said that intersex people didn't exist - I fully support that a hermaphrodite isn't a proper term to use for people (humans) as the condition is so extremely rare that it pretty much almost doesn't exist in our species after all. I want to reiterate that we're not talking about labeling real people as herms here - the term herm is in existence for characters who fit the description, which in a world of fantasy, sci-fi and fiction is a perfectly valid option. It's not considered a slur or even a remotely offensive term in the furry community, and it's never been used as a degrading or negative term in RPR before.
Naln isn't a real person, she's a fictional character who is biologically defined as a herm. I'm sorry you think it's offensive that I advocate her as one, but intersex is not an appropriate term I can use for her as its definition is too broad.
Kim wrote:
Done!
I've no problem with upgrading the feature like this whatsoever, in case I've given the impression otherwise. I just wasn't happy with the idea of removing or changing a valid gender in favor of another. I'm also a little upset by this thread as I feel I'm being made out to be some kind of monster for the choice I made for my character's gender, so I apologize if I appear a little defensive.MadRatBird wrote:
Though Kim, when you mentioned the "male/female/none/write" did you mean 'write' to be to write one that isn't listed?
(...)
I think for now though, what we could do is hide the basics and then add it all in manually. Maybe that'd work while this is being discussed/worked on/whatever else? O:
(...)
I think for now though, what we could do is hide the basics and then add it all in manually. Maybe that'd work while this is being discussed/worked on/whatever else? O:
I think this is what Kim meant, yes! As for editing the feature already, I have a suspicion that coding the feature to receive manual input temporarily will take as much time as rewriting the setup as intended.
Naln wrote:
Masha wrote:
Tossing this out here that gender is a preferred term over sex due to transphobia. Also, intersex people exist. The entire reason (notreally - I just happened to push for it - I'm sure Kim wanted it well before I popped in) the new feature exists that Kim is asking you to vote up is because, frankly, I was disgusted that herm, a slur when used toward people, was an option but trans or intersex had to go under binary markers or other/none. While it's since been cleared up as to why it's ok. For herm to exist as an option re: non-human characters, I'm just a tad 'eeeehhhhhh' to see someone advocating the slur over a term used to accurately describe real people.
But seriously, go vote that feature up! I'm only too eager for it.
But seriously, go vote that feature up! I'm only too eager for it.
Nobody said that intersex people didn't exist - I fully support that a hermaphrodite isn't a proper term to use for people (humans) as the condition is so extremely rare that it pretty much almost doesn't exist in our species after all. I want to reiterate that we're not talking about labeling real people as herms here - the term herm is in existence for characters who fit the description, which in a world of fantasy, sci-fi and fiction is a perfectly valid option. It's not considered a slur or even a remotely offensive term in the furry community, and it's never been used as a degrading or negative term in RPR before.
Naln isn't a real person, she's a fictional character who is biologically defined as a herm. I'm sorry you think it's offensive that I advocate her as one, but intersex is not an appropriate term I can use for her as its definition is too broad.
I don't understand why you replied here then messaged me. Buuuut ok. I've already explained this to you in pm.
I'm adding for public record: I can not and will not label your characters for you, and my statement had been in regards to your suggesting the word over intersex simply for how common it is for people to know it.
And...one last fyi: you seem to think herm actually happens in the human genome, ever. It's not simply 'extremely rare' that it's a foolish term to use - if it were extremely rare, it'd still be a valid term to use. Validity in independent of rarity. Hermaphroditism, equal parts male and female, literally doesn't occur in humans. Chromosomal variations, however, do. Thus the wide, encompassing term of intersex. I'm just adding this in to clear that misconception up. No need to pm me.
Personally? I want the option to term my characters in irl people terms, because that's how I roll. I'd like these terms to be 'default', as in the write-in, as opposed to 'other' while herm is default. Go on about scifi all you like - I've already been through this discussion, Ipromise you you don't need to bold it for me - but until it's no longer default over other terms, I'm still going to be grossed out by it.
Actuallyintersex @ tumblr is a great first-hand place to go if anyone would like to know why I'm grossed.out.
Masha wrote:
And...one last fyi: you seem to think herm actually happens in the human genome, ever. It's not simply 'extremely rare' that it's a foolish term to use - if it were extremely rare, it'd still be a valid term to use. Validity in independent of rarity. Hermaphroditism, equal parts male and female, literally doesn't occur in humans. Chromosomal variations, however, do. Thus the wide, encompassing term of intersex. I'm just adding this in to clear that misconception up. No need to pm me.
Naln wrote:
Masha wrote:
Tossing this out here that gender is a preferred term over sex due to transphobia. Also, intersex people exist. The entire reason (notreally - I just happened to push for it - I'm sure Kim wanted it well before I popped in) the new feature exists that Kim is asking you to vote up is because, frankly, I was disgusted that herm, a slur when used toward people, was an option but trans or intersex had to go under binary markers or other/none. While it's since been cleared up as to why it's ok. For herm to exist as an option re: non-human characters, I'm just a tad 'eeeehhhhhh' to see someone advocating the slur over a term used to accurately describe real people.
But seriously, go vote that feature up! I'm only too eager for it.
But seriously, go vote that feature up! I'm only too eager for it.
Nobody said that intersex people didn't exist - I fully support that a hermaphrodite isn't a proper term to use for people (humans) as the condition is so extremely rare that it pretty much almost doesn't exist in our species after all. I want to reiterate that we're not talking about labeling real people as herms here - the term herm is in existence for characters who fit the description, which in a world of fantasy, sci-fi and fiction is a perfectly valid option. It's not considered a slur or even a remotely offensive term in the furry community, and it's never been used as a degrading or negative term in RPR before.
Naln isn't a real person, she's a fictional character who is biologically defined as a herm. I'm sorry you think it's offensive that I advocate her as one, but intersex is not an appropriate term I can use for her as its definition is too broad.
Kim wrote:
Done!
I've no problem with upgrading the feature like this whatsoever, in case I've given the impression otherwise. I just wasn't happy with the idea of removing or changing a valid gender in favor of another. I'm also a little upset by this thread as I feel I'm being made out to be some kind of monster for the choice I made for my character's gender, so I apologize if I appear a little defensive.MadRatBird wrote:
Though Kim, when you mentioned the "male/female/none/write" did you mean 'write' to be to write one that isn't listed?
(...)
I think for now though, what we could do is hide the basics and then add it all in manually. Maybe that'd work while this is being discussed/worked on/whatever else? O:
(...)
I think for now though, what we could do is hide the basics and then add it all in manually. Maybe that'd work while this is being discussed/worked on/whatever else? O:
I think this is what Kim meant, yes! As for editing the feature already, I have a suspicion that coding the feature to receive manual input temporarily will take as much time as rewriting the setup as intended.
Thank you for replying! After I took a look at the link I saw that it was what she meant haha. Totally signed.
And don't worry! I understand what you mean, you're not bashing anyone or any gender/gender identity/sex/etc. so you hardly seem like a monster.
MadRatBird wrote:
Though Kim, when you mentioned the "male/female/none/write" did you mean 'write' to be to write one that isn't listed?
Yes. We'd have the two overwhelmingly common binary options, the option not to answer, and then an option to do something "custom" (although not 100% custom -- there'd still be that white list so we don't have people whose gender is written in as "sex toy" or worse). As I understand it FB has something like 56 options available (although none of the articles I can find on the subject will actually list more than 12 or so...), and that seems like something we could offer easily. Since I am not as educated as I could be on all the gender identity descriptions out there, I'll be inviting people to help me craft a google doc full of potential white listed terms. I know Masha has generously volunteered to help with this, but let me know if someone out there reading this would also like to contribute.
This should satisfy all of our computer-based "standardized data" needs but still allow for the wonderful diversity of actual real human beings. It's actually really exciting even just from a database nerd perspective.
MadRatBird wrote:
I think for now though, what we could do is hide the basics and then add it all in manually. Maybe that'd work while this is being discussed/worked on/whatever else? O:
This is more of a databasing issue than you know. As much as it sets my teeth on edge to have people feeling squicked, insulted or minimized in the interim, it is something that we'll just need to wait to do the full feature of. =/
Kim wrote:
MadRatBird wrote:
Though Kim, when you mentioned the "male/female/none/write" did you mean 'write' to be to write one that isn't listed?
Yes. We'd have the two overwhelmingly common binary options, the option not to answer, and then an option to do something "custom" (although not 100% custom -- there'd still be that white list so we don't have people whose gender is written in as "sex toy" or worse). As I understand it FB has something like 56 options available (although none of the articles I can find on the subject will actually list more than 12 or so...), and that seems like something we could offer easily. Since I am not as educated as I could be on all the gender identity descriptions out there, I'll be inviting people to help me craft a google doc full of potential white listed terms. I know Masha has generously volunteered to help with this, but let me know if someone out there reading this would also like to contribute.
This should satisfy all of our computer-based "standardized data" needs but still allow for the wonderful diversity of actual real human beings. It's actually really exciting even just from a database nerd perspective.
MadRatBird wrote:
I think for now though, what we could do is hide the basics and then add it all in manually. Maybe that'd work while this is being discussed/worked on/whatever else? O:
This is more of a databasing issue than you know. As much as it sets my teeth on edge to have people feeling squicked, insulted or minimized in the interim, it is something that we'll just need to wait to do the full feature of. =/
Thank you!
And yeah I figured so :c but there's always the manual option! I think it's good enough for now too. UwU
Honestly there's a lot people identify as! I keep finding more and more identities the more I browse online. So a lot of things are new while done aren't. Unfortunately I can't find many people on tumblr (aside for the fairy shark mother) who won't get mad at anyone wanting to educate themselves. It's a touchy topic to many so it's hard to keep from stepping on toes. Fairy Shark Mother is a great tumblr account full of sweet people who answer what questions they can (ranging to hygiene, sexual health, gender identity, and so on). I've learned a good bit of what I previously didn't understand, and found many previously asked questions that pertained to me as well. Overall they're very helpful people! I'd link them but I'm on my phone and can't remember my tumblr password haha. That also explains any awful errors! Sorry!
Novalyyn wrote:
Masha wrote:
And...one last fyi: you seem to think herm actually happens in the human genome, ever. It's not simply 'extremely rare' that it's a foolish term to use - if it were extremely rare, it'd still be a valid term to use. Validity in independent of rarity. Hermaphroditism, equal parts male and female, literally doesn't occur in humans. Chromosomal variations, however, do. Thus the wide, encompassing term of intersex. I'm just adding this in to clear that misconception up. No need to pm me.
If this is true (I don't say this to insult you - there's simply no source), that person would fall under the 'intersex' umbrella as they are still a variance of chromosomes and not a true hermaphroditic creature. I know ya'll really like dictionary definitions and all, but it still stands humans can not be a hermaphrodite simply because if it happens, it's an individual difference in chromosomes that will not be replicated perfectly through breeding, unlike - say, as Kim has - a snail. If that individual person wished, however, to be called one, that's up to them. But by and large, the intersex community really dislikes the word and consider if a slur.
Masha wrote:
If this is true (I don't say this to insult you - there's simply no source), that person would fall under the 'intersex' umbrella as they are still a variance of chromosomes and not a true hermaphroditic creature. I know ya'll really like dictionary definitions and all, but it still stands humans can not be a hermaphrodite simply because if it happens, it's an individual difference in chromosomes that will not be replicated perfectly through breeding, unlike - say, as Kim has - a snail. If that individual person wished, however, to be called one, that's up to them. But by and large, the intersex community really dislikes the word and consider if a slur.
http://www.nature.com/modpathol/journal/v15/n10/full/3880645a.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3418019/
http://www.glowm.com/section_view/heading/True%20Hermaphroditism/item/352
http://www.healthyplace.com/gender/inside-intersexuality/about-me/
http://www.gender.org.uk/about/04embryo/43_herm.htm
Being (unable) to pass the sex on to a child doesn't hinder someone from being classified as a herm. I trust these sources more than Tumblr. Tumblr is also not the spokesperson for the entire LGBT community worldwide, which you insist to bring forth as the most reliable source for everyone in every post you make. It only speaks for itself. There are enough people who don't mind calling themselves a hermaphrodite; just because your community doesn't approve of it, doesn't mean others feel the same way.
If you continue to insist I'd really like some proper resources (that aren't Tumblr) which indicate that a human cannot be classified as a true hermaphrodite. That it falls into an intersex subcategory makes sense, but it still is a standalone classification.
I'm stepping out of this. Tumblr is a valid place for people without a voice to have one, and I'm sorry that it is felt that only so-called experts (read: non-intersex people) can weigh in on it instead of people physically living with it and the consequences of gross language and fetishization. Some things that have been said here and in (unsolicited) PMs are making me physically ill and I'd prefer to remove myself than to waste my spoons on this.
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