While Minerva and I are married and share many beliefs, I think I have some of my own. I think every religion has some form of foundation that a person can learn and benifit from. There isn't any one in particular that I follow and I'm sure I have a long way to go in regards to any in particular. I think that gods are as real as the faith that they accumulate, and lack of faith can ultimately reduce the omnipotence of said god. Gods, angels, demons and any number of labels that can be placed upon them are ideals and natural building blocks to the universe we live in.
If I had to narrow it down to how I live my life I'd say I believe in the Hermetic philosophy "As above so below." and try to embrace a live and let live understanding. I can't say that any do or don't exist, because I have a smaller understanding of what they represent than I would need to confirm or deny them. I believe many of them do or at least did. I also like the idea of heaven and hope atleast my daughter goes there, so I try to put God first in my prayers, but sometimes fail.
I also subscribe to the thought that given enough time everything gains a spiritual awareness, especially when enough energy or attention is directed towards it. In this belief, I also think that the planet has an awareness and mind of its own, and try to maintain a harmonious relationship with it.
If I had to narrow it down to how I live my life I'd say I believe in the Hermetic philosophy "As above so below." and try to embrace a live and let live understanding. I can't say that any do or don't exist, because I have a smaller understanding of what they represent than I would need to confirm or deny them. I believe many of them do or at least did. I also like the idea of heaven and hope atleast my daughter goes there, so I try to put God first in my prayers, but sometimes fail.
I also subscribe to the thought that given enough time everything gains a spiritual awareness, especially when enough energy or attention is directed towards it. In this belief, I also think that the planet has an awareness and mind of its own, and try to maintain a harmonious relationship with it.
Hermetic belief is powerful in my mind as well; I also touch on aspects of Thelema, although those two aren't too far divided. I'm more... find and discover what I can, maybe find what the label for the belief is later. I never walked one particular path. I've even studied Goetics, much to many people's dismay. Like Maximus, I feel the truth is likely buried in the details. (Then again, so can the devil be, right?)
So if I gather... there's three primary divisions of religion going on here.
1) Pagan, be it a branch that is labeled or otherwise (I'm honestly surprised I haven't heard a wiccan pop up yet. Not that wiccan is bad, but it's so common it's refreshing to not be the first pagan branch I hear)
2) Christian or Catholic (Some see them as divided, some as the same)
3) Athiest or Agnostic, feeling it either doesn't exist or is untouchable.
And a variety of these being mixed (Was christian, and became... _____)
That's interesting.
So if I gather... there's three primary divisions of religion going on here.
1) Pagan, be it a branch that is labeled or otherwise (I'm honestly surprised I haven't heard a wiccan pop up yet. Not that wiccan is bad, but it's so common it's refreshing to not be the first pagan branch I hear)
2) Christian or Catholic (Some see them as divided, some as the same)
3) Athiest or Agnostic, feeling it either doesn't exist or is untouchable.
And a variety of these being mixed (Was christian, and became... _____)
That's interesting.
I'd say an athiest. Agnostic? Is it bad that to me.. I just don't care what may be up there or down below. Let me rephrase, it doesn't concern me. (I believe in Science!) I can't say whether or not that makes me an athiest or an agnostic.
I actually work for a Ukrainian Orthodox Church (though I mainly work with the catering business they run), and through working here I've learned more about the Orthodox Religion, or at least Ukrainian Orthodox Religion that I find very interesting. And how some of their beliefs could be seen as liberal. Needless to say, I'm surrounded by a whole lot of faith.
One example is evolution. They completely believe in the basic principles of the theory of evolution, but the whole process was initiated and guided by God. Were I to believe in something, I could get in on that band wagon.
Anyways! Just a random bit of information. It's been interesting to read other peoples beliefs.
I actually work for a Ukrainian Orthodox Church (though I mainly work with the catering business they run), and through working here I've learned more about the Orthodox Religion, or at least Ukrainian Orthodox Religion that I find very interesting. And how some of their beliefs could be seen as liberal. Needless to say, I'm surrounded by a whole lot of faith.
One example is evolution. They completely believe in the basic principles of the theory of evolution, but the whole process was initiated and guided by God. Were I to believe in something, I could get in on that band wagon.
Anyways! Just a random bit of information. It's been interesting to read other peoples beliefs.
Before I begin my rant: Dylan, what you describe I believe is Agnostic. You don't practice a religion, but you also have not denied outright that their beliefs could possibly be correct.
As for my own beliefs, I tend to get in a lot of fights about this. What I believe is what I can only describe as, pure and simple, Faith. There's no organization to it, there's just my belief that if I live my life trying to be a good person, that the world will react to it in kind. I guess you could say it's like karma- if you're good, so will be your life. If you put BS into the universe, it will throw it back into your face with a heated spite. I, personally, don't agree with organized religions because I've had a lot of bad experiences with churches. The one I grew up going to was little more than a man with a loud voice using weighted words to try and guilt us into submission. Faith shouldn't be a burden, and it shouldn't be something that asks you to judge anybody. It should be enough that a person works hard, speaks truth, and puts love into the world for them to get into whatever Heaven might exist when we pass on.
And that's all I have to say about that. CARRY ON.
As for my own beliefs, I tend to get in a lot of fights about this. What I believe is what I can only describe as, pure and simple, Faith. There's no organization to it, there's just my belief that if I live my life trying to be a good person, that the world will react to it in kind. I guess you could say it's like karma- if you're good, so will be your life. If you put BS into the universe, it will throw it back into your face with a heated spite. I, personally, don't agree with organized religions because I've had a lot of bad experiences with churches. The one I grew up going to was little more than a man with a loud voice using weighted words to try and guilt us into submission. Faith shouldn't be a burden, and it shouldn't be something that asks you to judge anybody. It should be enough that a person works hard, speaks truth, and puts love into the world for them to get into whatever Heaven might exist when we pass on.
And that's all I have to say about that. CARRY ON.
I was raised by an "I couldn't give a damn"-atheist father and a Lutheran mother who turned agnostic when her parents left their Church on account of getting letters stating that they were totally allowed to donate a hundred guilders if they wanted to be good Christians, like, now please. Obviously, my grandparents didn't think that was what Christianity was about, so they decided to continue their daily prayers without help of the Church.
I went to a Christian primary school, but only because Christian schools used to get more government funding than open/public schools and thus their education tended to be of higher quality. At school, we used to have a weekly class about religion. I learned about Egyptian mythology (got to 'decipher' hieroglyphs, that was fun) Jewish religion and Christian religion. Then later through history class and personal interest, I got introduced to Norse, Germanic, Roman and Greek mythology. As a child, I believed in the existence of all of the gods I had been introduced with. I liked the stories, and I believed the characters of those stories existed, because that's how they were presented, but I never had the feeling that any of them existed for me. Other people, yes, but not me, mainly because I've always found the Christian faith a bit scary, looking at images of a man nailed to the cross in various explicit ways, which I really couldn't understand when I was 4 to 12 years old, and since my parents didn't raise me in a religious way, they also didn't quite succeed in explaining it to me in a satisfying manner. I liked Norse gods a lot better, and totally fangirled Odin for a while, but note the term 'fangirled' and not 'worshipped'. When I had a discussion about it with my boyfriend years later, he remarked that it would be odd for him to believe in gods that are ending and actually die eventually. I had never consciously considered that before, but I think now that that sort of 'weakness' or... 'humanity' was what I found appealing. It's interesting to think about, anyway. Because, surely, if you have the choice, you'd rather go for a being who does not die while fighting an oversized reptile, right?
Anyway. These days, I believe in Neuroscience, and all the possibilities, limits and the great big wealth of interpretations of our environment that our brains offer us. I don't care whether or not the development of the human brain, or anything else in nature, was guided by something divine or not, because 1) I don't think we can ever prove or disprove that, and 2) it's hardly relevant to the result we're dealing with. I suppose that makes me agnostic?
I went to a Christian primary school, but only because Christian schools used to get more government funding than open/public schools and thus their education tended to be of higher quality. At school, we used to have a weekly class about religion. I learned about Egyptian mythology (got to 'decipher' hieroglyphs, that was fun) Jewish religion and Christian religion. Then later through history class and personal interest, I got introduced to Norse, Germanic, Roman and Greek mythology. As a child, I believed in the existence of all of the gods I had been introduced with. I liked the stories, and I believed the characters of those stories existed, because that's how they were presented, but I never had the feeling that any of them existed for me. Other people, yes, but not me, mainly because I've always found the Christian faith a bit scary, looking at images of a man nailed to the cross in various explicit ways, which I really couldn't understand when I was 4 to 12 years old, and since my parents didn't raise me in a religious way, they also didn't quite succeed in explaining it to me in a satisfying manner. I liked Norse gods a lot better, and totally fangirled Odin for a while, but note the term 'fangirled' and not 'worshipped'. When I had a discussion about it with my boyfriend years later, he remarked that it would be odd for him to believe in gods that are ending and actually die eventually. I had never consciously considered that before, but I think now that that sort of 'weakness' or... 'humanity' was what I found appealing. It's interesting to think about, anyway. Because, surely, if you have the choice, you'd rather go for a being who does not die while fighting an oversized reptile, right?
Anyway. These days, I believe in Neuroscience, and all the possibilities, limits and the great big wealth of interpretations of our environment that our brains offer us. I don't care whether or not the development of the human brain, or anything else in nature, was guided by something divine or not, because 1) I don't think we can ever prove or disprove that, and 2) it's hardly relevant to the result we're dealing with. I suppose that makes me agnostic?
Oh? A religion talk rock block? Well then I suppose I shall put in my two cents here. I am agnostic which, as it has already been explained, is the belief in a higher power though not necessarily a god or gods. Before that I was a baptized Methodist. But in those days I was young and didn't persay, have any say in the religion I wished to accept into my life. I've always been open minded so when I joined the military, I decided to explore a bit. One week I could be found at a Christian service, the next week a Jewish one and so forth. I even knew of a local temple for American based Buddhist monks of which I even ventured to it to explore their teachings a bit. Because of my open mindedness I found conflict among the varying religions despite overall beliefs. I was well aware of how each religion had it's own beliefs and thus conflict would arise but some of the conflict I had found was on a different level rather than just difference in opinion. I will say now though. Do not ask me what any of these conflicts were. It is not my intent to tell one something that may shake the foundation of their own beliefs. I have sworn myself not to after I questioned a pastor about some of these conflicts and it shook him so bad that the next week that church had a new pastor.
Next as some seem to have done, religious trinket wise, I have a few ranging from blank crosses, to varying pentacles as a show of my open mindedness with religion. Granted I don't keep them out in the open, I do have them.
Also I do believe in the existence of what I call spiritual allies and spiritual guardians. Those guys are for a separate conversation however and they are something that I believe that members of all religions can have and will speak of to anyone who is curious as to what exactly they are by my definition to those who are curious.
Next as some seem to have done, religious trinket wise, I have a few ranging from blank crosses, to varying pentacles as a show of my open mindedness with religion. Granted I don't keep them out in the open, I do have them.
Also I do believe in the existence of what I call spiritual allies and spiritual guardians. Those guys are for a separate conversation however and they are something that I believe that members of all religions can have and will speak of to anyone who is curious as to what exactly they are by my definition to those who are curious.
Minerva wrote:
Oh, Disc; I know of Juno/Hera, I simply do not... know her, so to speak.
As for those who strayed from their upbringing, I can completely understand that. I was raised in a mix of Southern Baptist and nondenominational christian churches during my time, but from my experiences over life was coaxed into believing there were some things it didn't quite explain.
On Sanne's idea of entities, I don't even entirely disagree with you; my one point would be that I think we, as humans, have a limited perception of what makes consciousness and living thought based on what we understand. They're age-old forces of nature that oversee fractions of our universe, in my opinion, and the level of their thought differs greatly from our own.
As for those who strayed from their upbringing, I can completely understand that. I was raised in a mix of Southern Baptist and nondenominational christian churches during my time, but from my experiences over life was coaxed into believing there were some things it didn't quite explain.
On Sanne's idea of entities, I don't even entirely disagree with you; my one point would be that I think we, as humans, have a limited perception of what makes consciousness and living thought based on what we understand. They're age-old forces of nature that oversee fractions of our universe, in my opinion, and the level of their thought differs greatly from our own.
Ah, your wording made it sound as though you had not heard of her. My apologies.
I was raised, well, not so much Christian but both of my parents are Church of England, and we never went to church on sundays. I was never baptised if only because my parents couldn't agree on who'd be my god-parents. So once I was old enough, I was given the freedom to choose and settled on 'generic' Pagan with no real set pantheon of sorts to now, Ancient Roman pagan. As part of a re-enactment group, it's handy! Makes reading the altar for the public a whole lot easier when I'm already learning what it says anyway
Since a lot of people are going in depth onto the growth of their beliefs, I'll probably do so at a later date. Maybe even later today depending on what all I have to squeeze in during my online time.
It's fine, disc. I know I was a little unclear. I honestly feel I should be a bit more versed in her than I am; as far as I can tell she is also lady Asherah, and at other times could be marked as the bride of the Taurean aspect of Zeus--but while I feel Zeus is primarily a Yahweh parallel (as per being Jove), I feel there may actually be a few Zeuses, considering the multiple aspects that we see over time; if I'm not mistaken, the entire misadventure of Io, Hermes fighting the giant, and Hera's jealousy (and the creation of the peacock) had to do with the Taurean aspect, which would indeed make it a Saturnus rather than Jupiter. But all of that becomes painful ambiguity eventually. I often consider Helios to be parallel to Horus, and as he was ultimately nearly removed from greek belief and later confused with Apollo, I often believe that Helios may have been confused with Zeus as elsewise, there is no intermediate ruler of the sky as we see with Re and Horus (lol--Hoors; Helios, coinkidink?). In fact, the Thoth-aspect of Horus was punished for giving away Re's true name to Ishtar no differently than Shemyasha was punished for giving away Yahweh's true name to Inanna--and even limited research finds the Ishtar/Inanna parallels. And of course, as Helios mysteriously crashed from the sky to be superceded by Apollo, both Apollo and Set (who took Horus' solar eye) were the serpent slayer, for slaying Apophis and Apep, respectively. Until then, Apollo had been closer to lunar belief.
...I'm ranting. I digress.
As for being surprised by who will leave an offering, I have a few interesting things on that.
See, on our altar, it's not just food and stuff that gets offered (but that isn't left out, either; this is gonna sound stupid jpoppy, but Hermes loves the hell out of pocky, and it's been left for him by three people; sadly, nobody can ever find his favorite--right, Loki?) Instead, we gladly accept anything that reminds people of them.
The Jack Sparrow patch came from Loki. The three cards came from a Christian who while not in a labeled denomination, follows something very close to Pentacostal from what I can gather. Two cards are for Hermes, one is for someone who's name wouldn't be recognized, as they aren't very broadly known in lore. As I call Hermes Luci, and Athena Ferous, and Chiron Jason, said individual is called "Azu."
The next one I'm not sure of the pic quality of; my phone it's hard to tell on, and my laptop disrupts images from broken red output, hopefully it can be made out. It's a sake serving glass that comes with four matching cups; the details mostly reminded its dedicant--Loki--of "Luci", but there's a cup for each primary individual/set on our altar, which works out. The dragon was given by said Christian earlier--known as Drayle on this forum.
Some more of my own reliefs:
For Athena, I found this; Honestly in spite of her owlish propensities I find osprey and other sea hawks more fitting, but it's hard to find an affordable relief where you can tell it apart from another bird of prey... also certain medium sized cats like jaguars and leopards at times, too, or wolves, but each of those can be too readily confused, so....
Here is my favored deck, the Thoth. Aside from its powerful imagery, I like its perverse sense of humor. Nobody handles it but me. Period.
I've received a lot of interesting gifts for up here. I believe it was SanityCatch that sent the beautiful peacock earrings for Hermes (I know it's more of a Hera symbol, but between his glamor and the fact he partially created it for her, it's a fine show for him). A friend named Nikki gave him a feather boa. In fact, he seems to get the most offered to him, probably due to his outgoing personality and being so much easier to contact and interpret. He doesn't even need to be a prince of thieves, he's so good at it people just give him stuff.
Okay disc, fun question. What odd offerings have you given that you know seem trifling but are aware the individual enjoys? For example, Mountain Dew. Hermes. Or most energy drinks. I saw a thread elsewhere that someone called it mass-produced chemically laiden swill that he'd never enjoy, and immediately after that I drew an image that's now in "Luci"s profile where he's holding a can of Mnt Swill and grinning.
It's fine, disc. I know I was a little unclear. I honestly feel I should be a bit more versed in her than I am; as far as I can tell she is also lady Asherah, and at other times could be marked as the bride of the Taurean aspect of Zeus--but while I feel Zeus is primarily a Yahweh parallel (as per being Jove), I feel there may actually be a few Zeuses, considering the multiple aspects that we see over time; if I'm not mistaken, the entire misadventure of Io, Hermes fighting the giant, and Hera's jealousy (and the creation of the peacock) had to do with the Taurean aspect, which would indeed make it a Saturnus rather than Jupiter. But all of that becomes painful ambiguity eventually. I often consider Helios to be parallel to Horus, and as he was ultimately nearly removed from greek belief and later confused with Apollo, I often believe that Helios may have been confused with Zeus as elsewise, there is no intermediate ruler of the sky as we see with Re and Horus (lol--Hoors; Helios, coinkidink?). In fact, the Thoth-aspect of Horus was punished for giving away Re's true name to Ishtar no differently than Shemyasha was punished for giving away Yahweh's true name to Inanna--and even limited research finds the Ishtar/Inanna parallels. And of course, as Helios mysteriously crashed from the sky to be superceded by Apollo, both Apollo and Set (who took Horus' solar eye) were the serpent slayer, for slaying Apophis and Apep, respectively. Until then, Apollo had been closer to lunar belief.
...I'm ranting. I digress.
As for being surprised by who will leave an offering, I have a few interesting things on that.
See, on our altar, it's not just food and stuff that gets offered (but that isn't left out, either; this is gonna sound stupid jpoppy, but Hermes loves the hell out of pocky, and it's been left for him by three people; sadly, nobody can ever find his favorite--right, Loki?) Instead, we gladly accept anything that reminds people of them.
The Jack Sparrow patch came from Loki. The three cards came from a Christian who while not in a labeled denomination, follows something very close to Pentacostal from what I can gather. Two cards are for Hermes, one is for someone who's name wouldn't be recognized, as they aren't very broadly known in lore. As I call Hermes Luci, and Athena Ferous, and Chiron Jason, said individual is called "Azu."
The next one I'm not sure of the pic quality of; my phone it's hard to tell on, and my laptop disrupts images from broken red output, hopefully it can be made out. It's a sake serving glass that comes with four matching cups; the details mostly reminded its dedicant--Loki--of "Luci", but there's a cup for each primary individual/set on our altar, which works out. The dragon was given by said Christian earlier--known as Drayle on this forum.
Some more of my own reliefs:
For Athena, I found this; Honestly in spite of her owlish propensities I find osprey and other sea hawks more fitting, but it's hard to find an affordable relief where you can tell it apart from another bird of prey... also certain medium sized cats like jaguars and leopards at times, too, or wolves, but each of those can be too readily confused, so....
Here is my favored deck, the Thoth. Aside from its powerful imagery, I like its perverse sense of humor. Nobody handles it but me. Period.
I've received a lot of interesting gifts for up here. I believe it was SanityCatch that sent the beautiful peacock earrings for Hermes (I know it's more of a Hera symbol, but between his glamor and the fact he partially created it for her, it's a fine show for him). A friend named Nikki gave him a feather boa. In fact, he seems to get the most offered to him, probably due to his outgoing personality and being so much easier to contact and interpret. He doesn't even need to be a prince of thieves, he's so good at it people just give him stuff.
Okay disc, fun question. What odd offerings have you given that you know seem trifling but are aware the individual enjoys? For example, Mountain Dew. Hermes. Or most energy drinks. I saw a thread elsewhere that someone called it mass-produced chemically laiden swill that he'd never enjoy, and immediately after that I drew an image that's now in "Luci"s profile where he's holding a can of Mnt Swill and grinning.
Oh and Drayle, if you read this forum, thanks for what you put up there.
The jester really is suiting for Hermes. It's like the dodgy nuisance you can never get rid of and can always put in defense mode. BOOM. Hahaha, just kidding, I'm still here. NEENEENOO. BAM. ...Nope! Still here! [/kefka]
The jester really is suiting for Hermes. It's like the dodgy nuisance you can never get rid of and can always put in defense mode. BOOM. Hahaha, just kidding, I'm still here. NEENEENOO. BAM. ...Nope! Still here! [/kefka]
Quote:
It's fine, disc. I know I was a little unclear. I honestly feel I should be a bit more versed in her than I am; as far as I can tell she is also lady Asherah, and at other times could be marked as the bride of the Taurean aspect of Zeus--but while I feel Zeus is primarily a Yahweh parallel (as per being Jove), I feel there may actually be a few Zeuses, considering the multiple aspects that we see over time; if I'm not mistaken, the entire misadventure of Io, Hermes fighting the giant, and Hera's jealousy (and the creation of the peacock) had to do with the Taurean aspect, which would indeed make it a Saturnus rather than Jupiter.
Quote:
But all of that becomes painful ambiguity eventually. I often consider Helios to be parallel to Horus, and as he was ultimately nearly removed from greek belief and later confused with Apollo, I often believe that Helios may have been confused with Zeus as elsewise, there is no intermediate ruler of the sky as we see with Re and Horus (lol--Hoors; Helios, coinkidink?).
Quote:
In fact, the Thoth-aspect of Horus was punished for giving away Re's true name to Ishtar no differently than Shemyasha was punished for giving away Yahweh's true name to Inanna--and even limited research finds the Ishtar/Inanna parallels. And of course, as Helios mysteriously crashed from the sky to be superceded by Apollo, both Apollo and Set (who took Horus' solar eye) were the serpent slayer, for slaying Apophis and Apep, respectively. Until then, Apollo had been closer to lunar belief.
Bearing in mind that I look at my beliefs from an archaeological point of view. I might believe in the Ancient Roman gods, but I base what rituals I do and what aspects of the gods I worship off traditional, documented depictions of them - I wouldn't go to Vulcan asking for guidance with my health, for example, just as I would not ask Venus for help on my fighting displays which would be more Mar's territory - as per Roman roles.
Checking in quick, letting you know that I'd -love- to have a discussion about this. I'm not beyond using archaeology either. Ishtar and Inanna, I think I typed backwards in my limited time, I'll have to review my post when I have time, probably on Monday. Regardless, I'll bring up my references. 
Sanne wrote:
My beliefs are mostly Buddhist in nature, though it's more of a lifestyle than a religion. 
I believe when I do good things, my positive energy will be used to provide me with positive events in life. And negative with negative.
I am open minded about deities. I lean towards the idea that they are a fabrication of our immense creative minds to give life meaning, to explain the unexplainable and therefore make our lives easier or more bearable. If they do exist, I imagine they are an indescribable lifeforce rather than sentient beings as we depict them in religion.
I suppose I live by feeling and balance, and leave the rest ope to reveal itself when we are ready. Whether that is in death or in our lifetime. But most importantly I believe in love and the right to love/be loved.
I believe when I do good things, my positive energy will be used to provide me with positive events in life. And negative with negative.I am open minded about deities. I lean towards the idea that they are a fabrication of our immense creative minds to give life meaning, to explain the unexplainable and therefore make our lives easier or more bearable. If they do exist, I imagine they are an indescribable lifeforce rather than sentient beings as we depict them in religion.
I suppose I live by feeling and balance, and leave the rest ope to reveal itself when we are ready. Whether that is in death or in our lifetime.
But most importantly I believe in love and the right to love/be loved.AMEN!
I think I'm in line with a lot of others, though from what I saw as I skimmed through that Darth and I have something in common, though I'm sure many others share it.
I was raised and what I might call an unreligious household. Looking back, I realize that my parents must have gone through a great deal of effort not to influence me or my sister, allowing us to go our own ways.
I have never read the Bible, nor have I read any holy book, and I intend to keep it that way. I learned the Lord's Prayer in boot camp, and would recite it to myself while being ITed, but stopped when I realized that my saying it was a falsehood.
I believe in the Judeo-Christian God, and I also believe in Zeus, Thor, Allah, Vishnu, Anansi, and hundreds of other gods that we do and do not have names for. I call myself a Christian because, even if Jesus was just some nutter running around, the idea that someone would take the responsibility of the sins of man upon their shoulders is kind of inspiring.
I have asked the Lord for forgiveness and I have expelled spirits using salt and Pagan chants.
What I believe I share with Darth and many others is that I have seen things walk this earth that shouldn't, including an old Boy Scout ghost story that is completely false that walks around a place in Palo Pinto county TX called Worth Ranch.
I have found Dogma, American Gods, and Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather (the movie) to be eye opening religious experiences.
Most importantly to me, though, is that I believe that I Believe, and that's what reconciles everything for me.
I was raised and what I might call an unreligious household. Looking back, I realize that my parents must have gone through a great deal of effort not to influence me or my sister, allowing us to go our own ways.
I have never read the Bible, nor have I read any holy book, and I intend to keep it that way. I learned the Lord's Prayer in boot camp, and would recite it to myself while being ITed, but stopped when I realized that my saying it was a falsehood.
I believe in the Judeo-Christian God, and I also believe in Zeus, Thor, Allah, Vishnu, Anansi, and hundreds of other gods that we do and do not have names for. I call myself a Christian because, even if Jesus was just some nutter running around, the idea that someone would take the responsibility of the sins of man upon their shoulders is kind of inspiring.
I have asked the Lord for forgiveness and I have expelled spirits using salt and Pagan chants.
What I believe I share with Darth and many others is that I have seen things walk this earth that shouldn't, including an old Boy Scout ghost story that is completely false that walks around a place in Palo Pinto county TX called Worth Ranch.
I have found Dogma, American Gods, and Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather (the movie) to be eye opening religious experiences.
Most importantly to me, though, is that I believe that I Believe, and that's what reconciles everything for me.
Alright, again my time is limited. *sigh* Well, let's see what I can say involving the archaeological end of the record;
The archaeological record actually indicates that the pantheons were not nearly so divided as we modernly perceive. While Athena and Neith were seen as parallels due to domain, Athena was in fact direct adapted into the name "Anat" by the Egyptians, as one of the wives of Set, who attempted to intermediate and bring peace between Set and Horus; Horus was seen as "Pan-Horus" in certain aspects, maintaining an idealistic combination of the ideas. Similarly, Greek and Roman belief often fused with Babylonian and Mithraic systems. Apollo's borrowing of Set's history is actually eerie, both claiming a fallen solar power, both earning the title the serpent slayer, and even the name and etymology of the serpent they slayed being almost identical. It's as time progressed that each system wanted to separate itself from the next, even after direct intermingling in the past. Never forget that the Akkadians claimed Pan as an elder god of their people, who predated the moon, even if the greek pantheon considered him among the younger gods. The intermingling of pantheons is actually fairly well recorded. Etymology, anthropology and archaeology are something I enjoy studying in this field.
Also if I'm seeming argumentative tell me to stop. I just... wanted to let you know where my belief structure comes from, since we had a slight variance on our thoughts.
The archaeological record actually indicates that the pantheons were not nearly so divided as we modernly perceive. While Athena and Neith were seen as parallels due to domain, Athena was in fact direct adapted into the name "Anat" by the Egyptians, as one of the wives of Set, who attempted to intermediate and bring peace between Set and Horus; Horus was seen as "Pan-Horus" in certain aspects, maintaining an idealistic combination of the ideas. Similarly, Greek and Roman belief often fused with Babylonian and Mithraic systems. Apollo's borrowing of Set's history is actually eerie, both claiming a fallen solar power, both earning the title the serpent slayer, and even the name and etymology of the serpent they slayed being almost identical. It's as time progressed that each system wanted to separate itself from the next, even after direct intermingling in the past. Never forget that the Akkadians claimed Pan as an elder god of their people, who predated the moon, even if the greek pantheon considered him among the younger gods. The intermingling of pantheons is actually fairly well recorded. Etymology, anthropology and archaeology are something I enjoy studying in this field.
Also if I'm seeming argumentative tell me to stop. I just... wanted to let you know where my belief structure comes from, since we had a slight variance on our thoughts.
Not so much argumentative as I first got the impression of on a first read. As much as I can agree on their origins, I believe primarily, first and foremost, in the Roman pantheon as the Ancient Romans did - as a seperate belief system influenced by others. I use only what Ancient Roman ceremonies are documented, not Egyptian, Persian or Mithraic ones because I believe that while they might have originated from singular sources, they evolved past that. Much like humans - we shared a common ancestor with primates but divurged far beyond that to become seperate in it's own right.
Oh, that I can definitely understand; I just wanted to illustrate it was not from lack of respect for an archaeological record that I believe what I do, but in fact to the contrary. I have great respect for anyone who can find a system that calls to them and achieves whatever they need to be done. Honestly, I find that whatever practice an individual is most comfortable with tends to be the most effective towards whatever end they want to reach. There's only a distinct few I've ever found that to not be the case with--you know, complete psychonauts that think saying a rhyme about becoming a cat while licking milk from a bowl they put cat hair in will work, or people who think they are the single-handed awesome taskforce of somethingorother and have slayed every known demon through wiccan chant. Elsewise... it's all about force of mind.
I find that's part of my fault, actually. I try so damn hard to find out every connection--etymology, anthropology, archaeology, astrology, etc--that binds different faiths into unified ideas, and my mind functions too, well... logically... to find any one and settle down on it. Not that I'm saying a single ritual system is illogical, it's just the method of my brain functioning that makes it nigh-impossible to accept any one angle when I know there's others out there. Because of that, finding any singular system that currently exists and works for me is difficult at best.
It's part of why I call myself an "eclectic pagan". My areas of study don't follow any one denomination or school of thought (in fact, the closest I've EVER found anyone following any of my ideas was Aleister Crowley, though ironically it took me until a few years ago to discover that!), nor do my practices--which are mostly self-discovered or designed with influences from other cultures.
Now, I said earlier I'd give a breakdown of my faith-evolution since others have, and it's an odd story.
I tend to start with before I was born, actually. I was a scientifically impossible (or in the very least ridiculously improbable) conception. My mother had one ovary and intense endometriosis, as well as was taking male hormones for her condition; my father had a low sperm count and a single testicle. Add in the fact that when my mother says she could count the number of times she had sex with my dad (or anyone else, for that matter) on one hand, I believe her. They didn't have the best relationship, we can put it like that.
Regardless, there I was; my mother didn't know she was pregnant until well into her second trimester because the pills had her gaining weight and feeling funny anyway. They were unsure at first if it would cause birth defects and pushed for abortion, but my mother refused the idea. Ultimately, I should have been a healthy baby girl--
If it wasn't for the fact that during birth they should have given a C-section and instead had to slash her open at the bottom exit last second. I had already lost an absurd amount of air and even my skull had been crushed in. It was visibly misshapen and I had to be revived on the scene. Much testing showed that while it hadn't effected my mental cognition, I was crippled with cerebral palsy, an incurable thing. I was hunched over to the side, unable to sit up, roll over, or do any of the things I should have naturally grown into doing.
I wasn't mentally handicapped, and was very attentive. It's why one day my mother was concerned when I was staring blankly at an empty chair as the church prayer group gathered around the table. I've heard this story from multiple people. A woman suddenly blurted out "She's going to be healed." My mother asked, and it was repeated. Within two days, my head rounded out its shape and I was managing to start rolling and sitting up. I have pictures and medical documents recording these events. They're true. When I got taken in to the doctors, they even asked "Is this the same child?" "God healed her." "We're doctors, ma'am, we can't take that as an explanation, even if we do not have one ourselves."
Regardless, that was just one of many odd instances, which followed me through my life. Around the time I was a year old--not long after I was repaired--my father had been beating my mother at home, but nothing showed to the public. A man approached them while they were out in public, and pulled my father aside to tell him he would lose his family. I remember his recounting almost sounded too much like a generic angel without the wings, fair skinned, blue eyed and blonde haired. Father challenged him and tried to strike, his hand was caught. He trudged into the station to do whatever it was he was going to do.
The man started talking to my mom, and ultimately it came down to her asking where he went to church when he laid face down on the ground and started praying. He pointed to the top of a nearby mountain. "That's where I go to church." She argued, confused; she knew the top of the mountain well; I was born at the foot of it. It was all hiking trails and a few vacation homes once you got a third of the way up it, nobody lived much less went to church up there, but he insisted.
They parted ways. She never saw the man again. A few days later she decided to suddenly leave California and move back to Illinois to live with the rest of her family.
After that my life was fairly mundane, even if I was an odd child. I remembered my 'imaginary friends' too well. It wasn't until I reviewed my childhood videos about seven years ago that I was aghast. Maximus was the one to notice it first, coaxing me to rewind and review the footage multiple times to make sure it wasn't tricks of the light. I was actively engaging with what showed as blue blobs in the screen to the point of frustrating my mom and the camerawoman because I chose to ignore them for it. Even better, for about 15 years I had (and an ex-girlfriend had, I'll cover that another time) been drawing a certain eye-design. Clear as day, in one of the reels, the eye and the fanning markings were cut distinctly out of the blue glow. At times I chased a vaguer blue glow around a tree; it wasn't only lighting or the lens; it even coaxed me to hide my mischief on the other side of the tree, where it disappeared from view until they found me again. Asking what I was doing, I glanced straight at it with the eyes Derek calls my "Jack Sparrow eyes" and then at the camera, proceding to distract them with something entirely different.
The camera incident wasn't the only time I remember playing with odd events. They were abroad. They occupied me while my mom was at work, and I stayed with my aunt who was busy with her dying mother.
As I got older, though, I lost touch with it. I think it was partially losing my innocence; partially being washed by the perception of modern culture, and the contrivances of our current systems that demanded focus; I think it was partially religious fear, where as I grew older I understand what my mom taught me was that anything we did not recognize was the devil's work--not word for word, but that was the idea of it. She often reacted to things I saw, jumping at the same time as me when we turned to see a figure in the door. We would look at each other perplexed when we heard a whistle between us with no TV or radio for an excuse in an empty apartment. I remember she often looked concerned, sometimes even shaken.
That was no surprise. She was tested for her ESP skills herself in the past, and while she scored remarkably she chose to abandon it because she felt it to be a form of witchcraft or otherwise dark arts. She predicted the death of several people dear to her, who showed no signs of it, within a day--some as abrupt as accidents an hour after she saw them and couldn't bring herself to shake their hand. She called her own house knowing someone was inside it who shouldn't have been, and found repo men there because my dad (who we had returned to) hadn't made payments we didn't even know about. She could be downright eerie at times. And it unnerved her.
As I grew older (from first memories through when I left home at 19) I fell more and more into typical protestant christian religion. I still believe much of it, but I also sought out, around the time I hit puberty, to uncover the root of odd events in my life; they were starting again, and while not as clear as it had been in the past, I still remembered what had been before. Some was the same. Some was different. I call it the beginning of the age of astral drama. I prefered to approach and understand it, than curl up in the corner crying with a can of mace as if that was going to protect me; the fear that had been taught to me was literally going to drive me mad. Its peak hit between 14-19, and around the time I became a mother, a worker, a this and a that, I lost some touch with that side, with my perception less and less focused on that side.
Recently I've not had as much choice. I'm going to perceive it whether I choose to or not.
So there you go, there's my growth path, and how it happened. It's been a search for myself as much as everything else. Along the way, I found a few others much like myself. I could go into the entire discovery of he who I NOW call "Father", though to simplify to people I call him my "Other" usually--as in Father, Mother, and Other. But that's another rant entirely, following from one path, back to a memory, and through an epiphany and so on. I'll save that for if anyone actually asks.
I find that's part of my fault, actually. I try so damn hard to find out every connection--etymology, anthropology, archaeology, astrology, etc--that binds different faiths into unified ideas, and my mind functions too, well... logically... to find any one and settle down on it. Not that I'm saying a single ritual system is illogical, it's just the method of my brain functioning that makes it nigh-impossible to accept any one angle when I know there's others out there. Because of that, finding any singular system that currently exists and works for me is difficult at best.
It's part of why I call myself an "eclectic pagan". My areas of study don't follow any one denomination or school of thought (in fact, the closest I've EVER found anyone following any of my ideas was Aleister Crowley, though ironically it took me until a few years ago to discover that!), nor do my practices--which are mostly self-discovered or designed with influences from other cultures.
Now, I said earlier I'd give a breakdown of my faith-evolution since others have, and it's an odd story.
I tend to start with before I was born, actually. I was a scientifically impossible (or in the very least ridiculously improbable) conception. My mother had one ovary and intense endometriosis, as well as was taking male hormones for her condition; my father had a low sperm count and a single testicle. Add in the fact that when my mother says she could count the number of times she had sex with my dad (or anyone else, for that matter) on one hand, I believe her. They didn't have the best relationship, we can put it like that.
Regardless, there I was; my mother didn't know she was pregnant until well into her second trimester because the pills had her gaining weight and feeling funny anyway. They were unsure at first if it would cause birth defects and pushed for abortion, but my mother refused the idea. Ultimately, I should have been a healthy baby girl--
If it wasn't for the fact that during birth they should have given a C-section and instead had to slash her open at the bottom exit last second. I had already lost an absurd amount of air and even my skull had been crushed in. It was visibly misshapen and I had to be revived on the scene. Much testing showed that while it hadn't effected my mental cognition, I was crippled with cerebral palsy, an incurable thing. I was hunched over to the side, unable to sit up, roll over, or do any of the things I should have naturally grown into doing.
I wasn't mentally handicapped, and was very attentive. It's why one day my mother was concerned when I was staring blankly at an empty chair as the church prayer group gathered around the table. I've heard this story from multiple people. A woman suddenly blurted out "She's going to be healed." My mother asked, and it was repeated. Within two days, my head rounded out its shape and I was managing to start rolling and sitting up. I have pictures and medical documents recording these events. They're true. When I got taken in to the doctors, they even asked "Is this the same child?" "God healed her." "We're doctors, ma'am, we can't take that as an explanation, even if we do not have one ourselves."
Regardless, that was just one of many odd instances, which followed me through my life. Around the time I was a year old--not long after I was repaired--my father had been beating my mother at home, but nothing showed to the public. A man approached them while they were out in public, and pulled my father aside to tell him he would lose his family. I remember his recounting almost sounded too much like a generic angel without the wings, fair skinned, blue eyed and blonde haired. Father challenged him and tried to strike, his hand was caught. He trudged into the station to do whatever it was he was going to do.
The man started talking to my mom, and ultimately it came down to her asking where he went to church when he laid face down on the ground and started praying. He pointed to the top of a nearby mountain. "That's where I go to church." She argued, confused; she knew the top of the mountain well; I was born at the foot of it. It was all hiking trails and a few vacation homes once you got a third of the way up it, nobody lived much less went to church up there, but he insisted.
They parted ways. She never saw the man again. A few days later she decided to suddenly leave California and move back to Illinois to live with the rest of her family.
After that my life was fairly mundane, even if I was an odd child. I remembered my 'imaginary friends' too well. It wasn't until I reviewed my childhood videos about seven years ago that I was aghast. Maximus was the one to notice it first, coaxing me to rewind and review the footage multiple times to make sure it wasn't tricks of the light. I was actively engaging with what showed as blue blobs in the screen to the point of frustrating my mom and the camerawoman because I chose to ignore them for it. Even better, for about 15 years I had (and an ex-girlfriend had, I'll cover that another time) been drawing a certain eye-design. Clear as day, in one of the reels, the eye and the fanning markings were cut distinctly out of the blue glow. At times I chased a vaguer blue glow around a tree; it wasn't only lighting or the lens; it even coaxed me to hide my mischief on the other side of the tree, where it disappeared from view until they found me again. Asking what I was doing, I glanced straight at it with the eyes Derek calls my "Jack Sparrow eyes" and then at the camera, proceding to distract them with something entirely different.
The camera incident wasn't the only time I remember playing with odd events. They were abroad. They occupied me while my mom was at work, and I stayed with my aunt who was busy with her dying mother.
As I got older, though, I lost touch with it. I think it was partially losing my innocence; partially being washed by the perception of modern culture, and the contrivances of our current systems that demanded focus; I think it was partially religious fear, where as I grew older I understand what my mom taught me was that anything we did not recognize was the devil's work--not word for word, but that was the idea of it. She often reacted to things I saw, jumping at the same time as me when we turned to see a figure in the door. We would look at each other perplexed when we heard a whistle between us with no TV or radio for an excuse in an empty apartment. I remember she often looked concerned, sometimes even shaken.
That was no surprise. She was tested for her ESP skills herself in the past, and while she scored remarkably she chose to abandon it because she felt it to be a form of witchcraft or otherwise dark arts. She predicted the death of several people dear to her, who showed no signs of it, within a day--some as abrupt as accidents an hour after she saw them and couldn't bring herself to shake their hand. She called her own house knowing someone was inside it who shouldn't have been, and found repo men there because my dad (who we had returned to) hadn't made payments we didn't even know about. She could be downright eerie at times. And it unnerved her.
As I grew older (from first memories through when I left home at 19) I fell more and more into typical protestant christian religion. I still believe much of it, but I also sought out, around the time I hit puberty, to uncover the root of odd events in my life; they were starting again, and while not as clear as it had been in the past, I still remembered what had been before. Some was the same. Some was different. I call it the beginning of the age of astral drama. I prefered to approach and understand it, than curl up in the corner crying with a can of mace as if that was going to protect me; the fear that had been taught to me was literally going to drive me mad. Its peak hit between 14-19, and around the time I became a mother, a worker, a this and a that, I lost some touch with that side, with my perception less and less focused on that side.
Recently I've not had as much choice. I'm going to perceive it whether I choose to or not.
So there you go, there's my growth path, and how it happened. It's been a search for myself as much as everything else. Along the way, I found a few others much like myself. I could go into the entire discovery of he who I NOW call "Father", though to simplify to people I call him my "Other" usually--as in Father, Mother, and Other. But that's another rant entirely, following from one path, back to a memory, and through an epiphany and so on. I'll save that for if anyone actually asks.
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