Forums » Smalltalk » [edit] Any Archaeologists? Take a gander at this.

http://www.spike.com/articles/d52vgl/spike-goes-hunting-for-valuable-artifacts-with-american-digger

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/hey-spike-tv-protect-our-historical-knowledge-by/signatures


http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-spike-tv-from-looting-our-collective-past

Here's the issue.




Spike TV and National Geographic, the latter of which is actually cooperating with the overwhelming response from America's archaeologists, are planning to air two shows that glorify the looting of historical sites and perpetuate an infuriating stereotype that the field of archaeology is a treasure hunting gig, and that we make a profit off of what we do.

I want to start off by saying this stereotype is untrue. Educated archaeologists excavate to learn and teach others about the histories that make humans what they are today. It's NOT a profession anyone can do. It's not just digging. There's a lot involved - careful mapping, logging, organizing your findings into readable reports - and by shredding and stripping the land of the artifacts, you rob them of the context needed to make sense of the story they tell.


This cannot happen.


As a student archaeologist, I am shocked and appalled that anyone thought this was a good idea. I am infuriated by the fact this is actually almost on TV, and that this is being PROMOTED.


These are not professionals.


These are amateur treasure hunters wandering around in the backyards of citizens, to shovel up artifacts that they plan to sell - AKA, "get a piece of the pie." A pie that doesn't exist, as archaeologists don't actually get rich off of this.



I ask you now, if any of you have ever been interested in other cultures, if you've ever loved history, if you've ever loved dinosaurs, help us. If you've ever taken pride in who we are as humans, help us.


This pillaging of our history has to be stopped. I will happily give you the emails and addresses of the producers of this travesty, if you message me for it. I don't want to drop names on site and risk something happening.



Also, I don't care if these guys are going to lie and simply salt sites. There are a lot of Americans that are ignorant enough to believe that reality TV is actual reality. If these people go around pretending that they got rich quick off of robbing a site, what's the stop those same ignorant people from thinking it's a good idea?

I've been on several excavations already, and I've visited massive digs with actual professionals that tell woeful stories about setting up cameras that catch people digging up their hard work with shovels to sell artifacts on the black market.

You think this isn't a problem? Just because you've never cared about it doesn't mean it's right to allow it to happen. There are plenty of people on this planet that want to preserve the history that we have, and by enabling thieves and criminals, you're basically allowing them to burn down a library of information.

Just because it's never reported on TV doesn't mean it never happens. It IS a problem. There are enough unethical people on this planet to make it into a problem. I, for one, want to do anything I can to stop this from being promoted.

Archaeology is not a "get rich quick" career. It's one of those so-called "poor man's jobs," which is driven purely by the interest of the workers and the love they have for what they do. We're not in this for the money, because honestly, there's barely any money to be made.

We do what we do for a love of history.

Not for profit.

Yikes! I had no idea this was going on.

I didn't either, until a few days ago. It was announced by my university's anthropology department on Tuesday, but apparently they'd known for at least a week before then. I'm trying to put together a student response as we speak, just waiting for word from the heads of department.


I mean... this is disgusting. I've never been so shocked. I honestly feel like crying.

Already signed both petitions. You guys should really take a look at this. Encouraging these kind of behaviors for the sake of profit and entertainment strikes me as plain disgusting. Do these guys have ANY ethics?

Signed both. This is completely ridiculous I hope something can be done about it. Will share on my Facebook wall too to let others know. I didn't even know this was going on!

Thank you so much for the support. I really hope this doesn't make it to TV. We were too late to stop the NG one, but they agreed to put a disclaimer on the first episode discouraging people from doing it, but the fact it was NG kind of makes me sad orz.

One would think that National Geographic would have more respect than that

You'd think so, but apparently not. I'm extremely disappointed.

I'm also a little irritated with the responses I'm getting on FB so far. One person was in support, but another said,

"Because if Harrison Ford does it, it's okay?" They mentioned 1000 ways to die, as well, saying it was no surprise Spike was doing this.

I don't want ANYONE destroying history, and I'm insulted he'd even say that. 1000 ways to die is a disgusting show, too, and just because it's unsurprising doesn't mean it's right.

I am on the career path to become a battlefield archaeologist, and have been involved in and around the profession since I was knee high to a trowel I was made aware of this via Mike Loade's facebook page, and have signed both petitions The fact that it's even considering to be aired is frankly astounding, given how protective people normally are of their heritage.

Edit: To whoever mentioned Harrison Ford (and presumably, referring to Indiana Jones), clearly they can't realise that the films were fictional.

I don't even think they went and ravaged any actual ruins.



The main problem, though, is that even in fictional movies and shows - even if they're just salting the sites and pretending - there's plenty of people that think reality TV is actually real, and will think "OH HEY if they can do it so can I!"

Pot hunting is already a huge problem. We used to have people dig through our sites up here in St. Louis, and even down at the Boone home people like to steal artifacts.


I mean, it's a problem already, let's not make it worse. D8;;



And oooh, battlefield archaeology! Interesting. I'm still trying to figure out where I want to go with my career. I just like way too much ahaha....

To whom it may concern:

query kin mu, a disfigured flat pony runt Quit.

That said, on to the actual response.

First of all, I'm concerned why its felt the airing of these shows has America's archaeologists so up in arms. Honestly, I don't really picture said scientists as grave robbers out to turn a profit. In fact, my view of them in my head is the same for paleontologists. Individuals in way to much khaki digging in deserts for relics of the past. Just one is finding something man made, the other dinosaur bones. Never really gave much thought to what they did with what they find. Just kind of imagined it getting turned over to a museum somewhere.

Seeing this show on spike isn't going to change that. No where in the link provided does it even make reference to them claiming to be archaeologists. Thus why this overwhelming response? They state clearly they are out to make a profit. Which clearly they do (I'm sorry Magical Pie Pan, this means there is a pie, and that you can get a peace of it.), as they have a successful business. One which is now being filmed.

The description of the show even states they are NOT looting historical sights. They are digging in people's back yards. With those people's permission. That means there is not a loss of location. No robbing of context. There is no hurting anything already out there.

Essentially, what you're saying is this. I'm not an archaeologist, thus I should not be allowed to dig up my own back yard and sell anything I find. Wait… didn't some kid find a complete dinosaur skeleton by doing that? Someone else found the worlds largest emerald deposit.

I guarantee you, my back yard does not posses the Ark of the Covenant, or the next two thousand years of the Mayan calendar. So if some guy wants to pay to dig up my yard because he thinks theres something worth selling… well, sure. I'll let him do it.

As far as this tv show airing… I hate to break it to you, but nothing you're proposing is going to stop it. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_petition . Those petitions you have linked are worthless. Nothing has come of ANY non-government related internet petition. I personally agree with it being slacktivism.

The rally you mentioned wanting to do, isn't really going to achieve much either. Here's why: Corporate America is out to make a profit. You and the students who attend represent such a tiny percentage of the population, whether they air it or not does not effect their profit line.

Furthermore, this thread alone has worked against you. Why? At least two people on this thread hadn't even known about this show starting. Never heard of it. Now we have. I plan to watch it now, because I'm curious what people have in their back yards. Maybe they'll show someplace near where I or family live. Hell, I'll dig a hole or two in my own property. Hell of a lot cheaper then buying a megladon tooth. Those things are like 50 bucks for a crap one. (Which, by the way, is the most significant find mentioned in that link. I'm sorry, but theres not much more those teeth can tell us.)

Now, onto the next issue. These people they're filming are by definition professionals. They get payed to do the job, and clearly do their job well, if they're being filmed for TV. They are not thieves. They are not criminals. They are not being filmed robbing historic sights. There isn't a library of information being lost. Maybe a book or two at best, but not a library. And these books were already lost anyway. Mostly, they're just not being found.

That would be a better argument. That they should be stopped over the possible knowledge not gained. And really, until the shows air, it can't be said whether they are doing even that.

As far as people trying to reproduce this show? Yes. People might go out into their back yards and dig holes. Holes might be dug in other peoples yards. But people are not going to go dig holes in a historical dig site. Then when they don't find anything, they'll give up. And move onto the next big thing.

And clearly, since site robbing is already occurring, whether the show airs or not, its going to continue.

This show does not stereotype archeologists. This show does not glorify "criminals and thieves."

You continue to study history. You finish your school, and go catalog, and inventory. Do the field work others won't. Dig in grids, study what you find. Maybe develop new policies or security systems to protect those dig sites. Educate the world. No one's trying to stop you. Do what you love.

Let them continue to ask people to dig in their yards. Let them sell their trinkets, and sharks teeth. Let them film it, and entertain people by showing the what could be buried in their back yard. Let them make their profits. Its not effecting you or any other archaeologist.

Let the stupid waste their time and energy destroying their own yards, because they saw it as more then just entertainment. Its still not effecting you or any other archaeologist.

You can't stop them. Not with what you're doing now. And there's not really any reason to do so.

I find this situation eerily similar to movies depicting animals as massive murderers. While to many people it may seem logical that a shark or a wolf doesn't just randomly attack and kill humans for bloodlust or fun, movies that show us just that have been justification for the hunting and killing of these animals. Not all people understand that what movies depict isn't a reflection of reality and they use these movies as one of many excuses to do what they do.

Surely the killing of such animals already exists. It won't stop if these movies are pulled and never shown. But by not showing them, at least a whole bunch of people won't get ideas into their heads and take what isn't a reflection of reality and apply it in real life. They will not justify more killing by using movies as an example.

I think this also applies really well to this situation. People will look at this and get all kinds of wrong ideas into their heads. They will feel encouraged to dig into their backyards, which is fine, but enough will take it too far and start digging into places where it's not okay.

There is a reason many shows put "Do not try this at home without consulting a professional" on the screen when they air, and now apparently NatGeo too. It's because not everyone is as rational and down-to-earth as we expect.

As for online petitions, all I have to say to that is SOPA.

Eh... I'm divided on this. People may end up being careless and destroying something because they don't know how to properly excavate. However, if someone wants to fill their yard full of holes and aren't breaking a neighborhood charter, all power to them, I guess. Most of these sites would never be excavated anyway, since most of them have crap built on top of it. I used to do it as a kid--dig, try to find arrowheads or dino teeth or rare rocks and gems. Nobody beat me with a yard stick for it then, so I wouldn't necessarily condemn anyone for doing it now. The one thing I do worry about is how many jackasses aren't going to call about the local wire, sewage or gas lines and I see a couple of yahoos blowing themselves up or knocking out power for their area.