Forums » RP Discussion » What is a Plot?

I've been thinking, really trying to break down the aspects of a compelling story and an engaging post. We talk a lot about how detail and action mean nothing if they aren't applied for the purpose of providing an atmosphere and something to respond to emotionally or cognitively (or literally, in the case of roleplay); now I wonder what we think about how that's done.

When does a narrative become a droning monologue? When does dialogue become idle banter?
When does action become a clash of motives? When does a character's excitement become our excitement?

And I stopped to think of some answers to these questions, and my gut reaction really is I don't know. And that worries me, because I wonder if it might be the difference between an aesthetically-pleasing thought and something worth interacting in, a dichotomy I tangle with too often.

I think that, generally speaking a well put together story is concise, with the fat trimmed. Everything that happens in the story furthers the plot. Everything advances, everything moves forward.

On the other hand, sometimes a little departure from the momentum of the plot can help to flesh out the world. A great deal of Lord of the Rings has nothing to do with the quest to destroy the One Ring; but rather it's taken as a sort of travelogue of Middle Earth. A lot of stuff in Harry Potter is there just to make the Wizarding World feel realized and lived-in, despite not contributing to the thrust of the narrative.

I'm not quite sure what I'm trying to say here. Strike a balance between depth and breadth, I s'pose? Don't meander too much. It's cleverer when seemingly unrelated plot-elements come together in the end and serve a meaningful purpose. But at the same time, an overly focused plot can leave the setting of the story without much room to breathe in.

As for relating to characters, that comes down to how relatable the characters are, naturally.

Thank you for your reply. I'll certainly be looking more closely at how I direct things, and ensure that the motion goes where I need it.

But how does one create that driving motivation? When does the stuff of plot go from background information to a dialogue between the author and the reader?

I've been struggling with this lately, because I don't actually know how to use the monkeywrench to get things started. I know how to stir the pot with something new, but then the dust settles and the characters are back to sitting around waiting for something Bad™ to happen.

I guess in my experience, it's always best to have that main task at hand, that the characters are essentially aiming towards long term. It could be finding out the motives of someone and looking for clues, pursuing an enemy/thief, travelling towards the last known location of a sighted dragon; anything, really.

Once that aim's been set, I find it then easy to add in other elements to the mix; an event that'll hinder or support their progress, something completely or totally related... etcetera.

But yeah, I think for keeping an RP alive, making that main objective too easy, or completing it too soon can be a mistake because then you can be left thinking "well, what next?".

I hope that makes sense.

Your question is fairly complex to answer. IMO, if you want motivation, don't think of your RP as writing a novel. It should not be something that aims to please readers, it is something to involve other players in. Once you manage to get a good group of players together with equal values (as far as their RP goes), and allow the freedom for all to contribute and shape the story equally, then your plot will pretty much write itself. That is what RP should be about, involvement is the key.

It is also very important to create interesting characters. It also helps if there is a 'social' setting for said characters to meet and 'get to know each other'. That way you can get yourself and your other players familiar with each others characters, you can make informed decisions about which characters you want to play as/with. That information will also ultimately help you to cater to the other players, create scenarios that everyone finds interesting and gets the imagination going to places that you might not even expect. It is very much like real life. The people you get to know better, you can get along with better, and enjoy their company more.

I also agree with Elerra, having a main/long term goal is a must. If you happen to find that your story reached the apex too soon, you can always throw in a double twist... leave a hint about something bigger or somesuch... or bring in a new character that hijacks the plot... that can work quite well actually with the right idea

As for how to create motivation, and how to avoid your plot being just background info? You simply need interested players.

If you plan on writing a novel all by yourself though, I would suggest trying to put yourself into the skin of your characters, and see what makes them tick. Once you figure that out, you can construct complete worlds around them with ease. You will certainly find it exciting, but as for the outside reader? That highly depends on the particular reader and your own writing style... there is unfortunately no magic formula that will appease all.

Thank you for your wisdom, both of you. Certainly roleplay is a very relevant context, and in that I find your pointers about interaction and involvement very resonating. When writing for an audience that is not yet involved, however, that's where I start to lose sight of the obvious. That's when I worry that my writing is only engaging in my eyes, and only because of my bias of having made it myself.

Of course, people will have their preferences, but there exist a variety of texts that engage readers upfront, and while I don't claim to have the skill to emulate that, I would at least like to learn how it's done so I can attract the few people necessary to facilitate a dialogue.

Author's blindness is a very upsetting bias because it blinds me to the flaws and fallacies of my own writing, which is why I've sought out some advice from the community. You all have so much written around the site regarding roleplay and independent writing, immersive and narrative writing, and so on, and to me that bodes well that I have found the right sort of people to ask this sort of question.

On a slightly tangential subject; Rattanee, your description of a social setting and naturally-emerging motivations for characters is something I've actually grown doubtful of, though most likely out of my own inexperience. I find very often that when I rely on this method, players very quickly grow tired of Elarra's "Well, what next?". Clearly there's something I'm doing that bores them, and I'm curious if any of you have any ideas regarding that.

Are you speaking in context of writing a story for someone to read, or a role play where people are interacting?
If the former you have to remember that everyone has their own preferences for what they deem as "good and engaging writing". I mean for example I found Tolkein's The Hobbit way more engaging than LotR ever could be, but I could name several that will argue endlessly on why I'm wrong!
That's just my perogative.

In which case, as an author it's a similar situation to any artist; you make art because you want to - not for other people to like it!

As the creator of a role play though... I've never been a DM, or been "in control" of a role play scenario before. I simply put in what I can and hope that who I'm playing with will put in the same amount of effort; if things become one sided it's easy to get bored, or for people to lose interest.

I'm asking from the perspective of an interactive storyteller who doesn't have an audience yet. Without invested characters to motivate the story's overarching goal, prospective players may not see any value to that story, rather interpreting it as background information, and lacking any real interest in it over the course of the roleplay.

That's where Rattanee's advice comes into play, suggesting an improvised story — which I have enjoyed in the past, and am certainly interested in trying again — but my history with that has lately been sub-par; fellow writers lose interest very quickly when there isn't a general guiding motion behind their in-character decisions.

Oh, I think I understand. Well then yeah; I tend to always assume an improvised story between all RPers involved. Rattanee and I have one going on at the moment that's developed into a direction I could never have foreseen when we started, haha. I've never really been involved in any other type of role play really.

I think it really just has to stem from both directions; I've been unlucky on other websites where the other party has just upped and left instead of letting me know they lost interest, or why.
There's an element of trust involved, and that circle of trust has to grow along with however many people are involved.

The beauty of improvisation is you can create your own guiding motions between your characters! At least that's how I see it.

It's really great when it works, but I haven't manage to make it work in five years, so I've sort of lost faith, y'know? Which is why I started this thread, trying to look at things the old-fashioned way.

But thanks for the discussion, Elerra, it definitely gives me something to think about.

It's very hard to make it work well. It can be really hard to find people with a similar mindset to your own, there's a definite element of luck involved. I'll be honest, I always find it odd when someone puts up a post looking for RP partners for a 'rigidly' defined scenario. Good characters always have a mind of their own, and their player/creator has to be aware of what situation might work. If it's any kind of social rp (like romance or whatnot), there is absolutely no warranty that two characters will be able to work off of each other in a way as to create an enjoyable experience for all players.

With Elerra, we know each others characters well enough that we can shape scenarios that cater to our characters, while still furthering the main plot.

My advice would be to start a scenario with a really large/long term goal, like a zombie invasion, or people disappearing, etc, but don't throw your players in deep water... start off with a more social setting, where the characters can get to know each other some, and gradually introduce the elements of the main plot. I prefer to RP within the boundaries of the Forgotten Realms DnD world, and that is also something I find helps a lot! Having a well defined world to operate in is always key. Using a popular setting has the advantage of attracting players that know said settings, and can play off of the world with ease, making them feel more comfortable and not having to dig through a bunch of lore right off the bat.

Hope that makes sense

Maybe that's my weakness, then, always trying to feed the players a story when it's up to their characters to find one. What are some other examples of narrative motivators like you'd suggested (zombie invasion, people disappearing) that drive the characters to do something other than sit around and small-talk forever? I'd like to figure out what they have in common aside from being survival-esque plots.

Oh those are just examples... but say you do a zombie invasion thing. What I would do is start off in a tavern, or town square with a descriptive scene, but without giving away much of the main plot... let the players ease in, look around, find their bearings... and in the middle of it all, just have a zombie stumble in, gnaw someone's skull, and let them kill it... then start an investigation, throw in some clues, follow them, add in some NPCs of your own making to distract from the main plot with things that may seem like they are connected, but might actually not be.

It doesn't all have to be about survival. Could just be a series of misterious events that lead up to whatever your imagination can muster. Whenever you feel like your players are sinking into complacency, stir up the plot with an unexpected even. It doesn't even have to necessarily connect to the main plot directly.

This is some good stuff; thank you for sticking with me while I work through this.

The monkeywrench is a very natural manner of engaging characters into a story, and your description helps me to better understand the nuances of it. However, characters aren't my target audience, their writers are. Even when I've accumulated a small group to write with, I find very often that their tendency is toward gravity; something which, paradoxically, I don't feel as much about my peers when on the other side of the storytelling stick, which leads me to believe there is something I'm doing differently from successful storytellers.

What I mean by gravity is that when I throw in the monkeywrench, the writers seem to take grasp of it half-heartedly — the natural sign of ambivalence — and I never quite earn their attention. This is why I'm attempting to learn what makes a plot engaging, entertaining, and involving, because that would help me to write for other people — because I don't write just for myself, roleplay or not, despite Elerra's perspective — in a way which actually earns their time. Nobody wants to roleplay just to finish what they've started; I want people who give my work the light of day to actually enjoy themselves.

I'm a little late jumping in here, but I hope my answers can still contribute!

When I get involved with a roleplay in a group setting or with someone who directs the plot more closely than myself, the number one reason I will stop being interested is when I feel the plot matters more than my character. All of my characters tend to have something unique and interesting to bring to the game, and when that aspect of them goes completely ignored by the GM (I'll use that term broadly here), I wonder "Why does my character even have to be here?".

Now I'm not asking for a Mary Sue "The One" role, but if my character is good at something like, I don't know, let's say knitting, and they're suitable for the plot at hand but they get no chance to utilize their useful skills, that's where a GM loses me. I also find this is often the reason for people to have their characters act out to steal the spotlight. You don't have to be "The One" to deserve some attention. Even perfectly ordinary people have their shining moments, and without those shining moments their presence is useless in storytelling.

If you want to 'earn my time', I need my character to be given a solid chance to be involved. I need the setting to be something that they can exist in without having to make a 180 degree turn away from their skills and personality for the sake of making them fit in. I need my character to matter and have a lasting impact on the game we're playing. Storytelling is an investment to me, one that not only furthers the plot, but also my character's personality and development as a whole. A good GM will take that into account. Many group roleplays lose sight of this and it makes the game uninteresting to me. Why should I invest if I (and my character) are not being invested in either?

I don't know how true this is for others, but I suspect there may be more who feel this way!

I think you bring up a very good point, Sanne. In fact, it actually reminds me of a nuance to RP Repository's culture which I find rather alien: Characters transcend roleplays here, and that is very strange to me. But more to the point, your description of story being as much a part of the characters as it is the setting is something which is more well-written than I could have conceived of.

So, I wonder; how are characters and roleplays related, here? What sort of ways do people coordinate new settings and characters?

Settings are more nebulous in these types of RPs than the characters are, as each player technically has a different idea of the kind of setting they're in.

What's more, this has become a place where people come to show off and test their characters. The character interactions are the heart and soul of the RPs here. That's why so many people don't allow permanent death for their characters. This place is meant to be a place to share their creations and development so they can grow.

This growth doesn't have to mean permanent development for whatever RPs they're in, but to allow the player to understand them better. I love 1x1 RPs because it better enables the characters to shine and find their chemistry. See, the plots are a means to an end here, that end being the chance to show off their character being awesome in their own special way.

Thanks for the insider info, Bell!

I really could have summarized that whole thing with that last sentence. Too many words.

Hmmm... I'm new to the type of things you're looking for help with, but even a little bit can help (or confuse)~

Ok, so... As a Player, I've been noticing overall that the more vague a scenario nd the plot of an RP or a story with multiple writers is, the crazier it becomes.
Examples on these are: a D&D RP that was supposed to only be about a group of orphans gathering at their 'childhood home' and then spending time together because it was the wish of their passed 'father'. - That was all. But then it went to them trying to hunt down mutant creatures for money and suddenly they had discovered that the government was up to no good
Another one with 0 planned plot went through forests, hotels, space, caves. There were dragons that only ate snowcones, army cantonments for resting places, sword and gun fights, a whole horde of murderous brainwashing victims - The list of events goes on and on

As a story teller, you can always direct the plot to a certain direction, unlike in a story/RP where each person is equal and one can't just tell the rules and put them to action without the acceptance of others. But for each story, there are filler acts - so that it won't end too soon. Mostly these fillers might happen through the actions of the characters themselves, but you'll find a way~

It's good to have a backbone, a skeleton around which it all is tied, so that it won't go and escape too far
Allowing some freedom and working together can bring up points you yourself might not have considered before

......
I hope that helped at least a little bit?