I am 100% for this feature.
If it wasn't something that required a cost, I would be for it being mandatory in order to access the Adult-Only sections of RPR - however, due to the cost I am not for it being mandatory.
I am someone who has been lied to about my RP partner's age several times and ended up RPing out scenes with people who were underage. It made me extremely uncomfortable and turned me away from RPing for a very long time because there wasn't really a way to verify that my partner was of my desired age range. As a RPer I largely prefer to only RP with people who are over the age of 18 (and actually, I generally prefer people be 21+) and if there was a method to ensure that someone (who hasn't otherwise shared their age on their profile) is at least 18 I would gladly take it.
If it wasn't something that required a cost, I would be for it being mandatory in order to access the Adult-Only sections of RPR - however, due to the cost I am not for it being mandatory.
I am someone who has been lied to about my RP partner's age several times and ended up RPing out scenes with people who were underage. It made me extremely uncomfortable and turned me away from RPing for a very long time because there wasn't really a way to verify that my partner was of my desired age range. As a RPer I largely prefer to only RP with people who are over the age of 18 (and actually, I generally prefer people be 21+) and if there was a method to ensure that someone (who hasn't otherwise shared their age on their profile) is at least 18 I would gladly take it.
I like this a lot!!!!
some good points, but from a security pov I would say that flashing your ID in a store is not comparable to uploading a photograph of your personal data on valid paperwork to a server.
it's more like making a copy of your license or passport and handing it to someone you don't know for a few weeks.
there's so many things that could potentially happen: even if you trust them, they could lose it or it could be stolen - they could take out a mortgage, they could ruin your credit rating. they could sell your details. they could take your identity.
the store clerk gives your id back. a hacker won't. these days most cases of identity fraud start online. so it's always good to be aware!
this isn't to say I disagree with the idea: I think it's a good idea in theory and I have faith that the implementation would be bullet proof. Kim knows her stuff. 👊
it's more like making a copy of your license or passport and handing it to someone you don't know for a few weeks.
there's so many things that could potentially happen: even if you trust them, they could lose it or it could be stolen - they could take out a mortgage, they could ruin your credit rating. they could sell your details. they could take your identity.
the store clerk gives your id back. a hacker won't. these days most cases of identity fraud start online. so it's always good to be aware!
this isn't to say I disagree with the idea: I think it's a good idea in theory and I have faith that the implementation would be bullet proof. Kim knows her stuff. 👊
I keep seeing the word discrimination thrown around. A preference for safety and security is not discrimination. A preference for roleplay style, topics, and character tropes is not discrimination. These are simple preferences that aid people's fun and comfort levels, and it's kind of silly to get offended that someone doesn't vibe well with minors.
As a parent, I would be incredibly uncomfortable with my children talking to a strange adult on the internet. Therefor, i do not talk or roleplay with minors. That is my preference, and I encourage young people to roleplay with one another and grow together. As a teen I did not understand the serious legal issues that an adult could face because I was role-playing with them.
On that note, this seems like a very bizarre and highly difficult process to start up. The legality, the hiring. Honestly, in the meantime, I think it would make more sense to crack down on minors caught lying about their age, encourage reporting for such, and maybe offer a badge for people to purchase that states they won't roleplay with minors. The original forum thread was only asking for a way to deter minors from messaging, right? It's not a fix all, but this is sounding more and more like something that wouldn't really happen/would take a long time to get going, where as a simple badge for comfort would probably put at least SOME at ease.
Just an idea, hope y'all figure out the best approach.
As a parent, I would be incredibly uncomfortable with my children talking to a strange adult on the internet. Therefor, i do not talk or roleplay with minors. That is my preference, and I encourage young people to roleplay with one another and grow together. As a teen I did not understand the serious legal issues that an adult could face because I was role-playing with them.
On that note, this seems like a very bizarre and highly difficult process to start up. The legality, the hiring. Honestly, in the meantime, I think it would make more sense to crack down on minors caught lying about their age, encourage reporting for such, and maybe offer a badge for people to purchase that states they won't roleplay with minors. The original forum thread was only asking for a way to deter minors from messaging, right? It's not a fix all, but this is sounding more and more like something that wouldn't really happen/would take a long time to get going, where as a simple badge for comfort would probably put at least SOME at ease.
Just an idea, hope y'all figure out the best approach.
Kim wrote:
But then as you age, you realize OH MY GOD there can be severe consequences for adults, even if I've obviously just been tricked into doing this against my will.
This.
T H I S.
T H I S
This is the reason why I won't even RP a whiff of a mature scene with a minor, regardless if it's smut, gore, or anything.
The idea that you can tell a minor by their RPing or how they talk is frankly bogus. I know of one well respected and well thought of RPer on a major dream that I used to play with 10 years ago who was underage and had every single person fooled, including staff members who kept specific watch for just such things. There are players that hide their age on their profile. Unicorn is (I'm sure inadvertently) one of them. They're up front about their age and I have no reason to disbelieve them, but their age is listed inside of their profile information, where they can edit it and format it, rather than being listed as the actual age stat.
I understand that some people don't want to list their age. I'll admit that I honestly don't get it, especially if the person is a legal adult, but I do understand it. To me, as someone who has learned to be extremely doubting of the information that people provide, this wouldn't be shutting any doors. Not a one. Instead, if someone had a nice and shiny "verified 18+" badge, even if their age was hidden I would feel comfortable RPing with them in any capacity.
As much as the sentiment that having this feature will dissuade users from joining RPR.... I don't get it. I think I remember seeing somewhere that there's something like 16000-17000 characters on RPR. If we averaged everyone having a max of ten, that's still 1700 people. And maybe a few hundred would have this badge? Most users, near as I can tell, are minors anyway, so those getting the badge would be a minority, rather than an overwhelming majority.
To the issue of price, I know that I've offered to pay for some as I am able. Same with Cacophony. Auberon runs a huge Furcadia group that's 18+ only, and there are things like raffles and giveaways that happen both in RPR and in groups. The money is there for people if they need help.
Fiebs wrote:
some good points, but from a security pov I would say that flashing your ID in a store is not comparable to uploading a photograph of your personal data on valid paperwork to a server.
it's more like making a copy of your license or passport and handing it to someone you don't know for a few weeks.
there's so many things that could potentially happen: even if you trust them, they could lose it or it could be stolen - they could take out a mortgage, they could ruin your credit rating. they could sell your details. they could take your identity.
the store clerk gives your id back. a hacker won't. these days most cases of identity fraud start online. so it's always good to be aware!
it's more like making a copy of your license or passport and handing it to someone you don't know for a few weeks.
there's so many things that could potentially happen: even if you trust them, they could lose it or it could be stolen - they could take out a mortgage, they could ruin your credit rating. they could sell your details. they could take your identity.
the store clerk gives your id back. a hacker won't. these days most cases of identity fraud start online. so it's always good to be aware!
But as long is the feature is optional, I'm ambivalent.
pockets wrote:
On that note, this seems like a very bizarre and highly difficult process to start up. The legality, the hiring. Honestly, in the meantime, I think it would make more sense to crack down on minors caught lying about their age, encourage reporting for such, and maybe offer a badge for people to purchase that states they won't roleplay with minors. The original forum thread was only asking for a way to deter minors from messaging, right? It's not a fix all, but this is sounding more and more like something that wouldn't really happen/would take a long time to get going, where as a simple badge for comfort would probably put at least SOME at ease.
Just an idea, hope y'all figure out the best approach.
Just an idea, hope y'all figure out the best approach.
Just to be clear, this was an idea that has been suggested on its own several times before, and whichI have been mulling over for maybe a year now. It was brought up again in the other topic and discussed by some people who recalled those conversations; this is an update on the progress of this idea in my brain, not a response to that other topic.
As for badges stating you won't RP with anyone under 18, there's no need for us to sell that, you can just write it on your profile today. Lots and lots of people do.
We strongly encourage anyone who has discovered that a minor has lied to them in order to obtain smut RP to use the report button. We have a process for handling this situation.
first im worried about the potential of identity theft.
I'm going to leave my two cents on this, and why I'm not a huge fan:
First of, is a problem that affects me personally, and is that this service would be paid. I get it that in the USA, ten dollars isn't much, but it's definetively a price me, and i'm guessing other users of economies similar to mine, can't afford. To put this in perspective, one dollar usd equals to almost 20 argentinian pesos, wich turns the price of this service for me to 200 argentinian pesos. ¿What can you buy with that? A decent lunch, several office supplies, a popular book, groceries for the next 3 days, a good phone charger...It's not huge money, I won't lie, but it's big money, and more than what I can afford investing on a service like this. and this is coming for the argentinian peso, users in other countries my have a dollar-own coin conversion with a higher difference, and thus a higer difficulty to pay for this optional feature.
Second is the deal with the potential identity theft. Many have pointed out that they own no drivers license, and in some countries, the driver's license may also contain personal information. I personally have very few documents that acredit my age, the main one being my Document of National Identification witch holds, in example, things like my: Full name, Picture, Hand Signature, DNI number, Issuing of the DNI's and identification number, asn well expirancy of the document itsefl and due date to renovation. All of this is information I don't feel comfortable giving out if it isn't to a goverment related tramit, and that can expose me to a potential identity tefth. Hell, even if you've only got the name, face, and personal data of a person an identity tefth can be done! (at a lower scale but it can). So yeah, This is one of the major objections to this. Even if the staff hires competent people for this task, nothing is set in stone: The site can be hacked, the info can be leaked...It's a huge risk for something that might be able to be solved easier.
Then, there's the thing with segregation. I'm going to be brief in this because a lot of people have adressed this issue, but this is sure to cause a drift. People who can't own this badge for whatever reason, or simply wont because they don't feel comfortable with it, will be likely to get some sort of exclusion due to this because "hey how do i know you aren't lying if you dont buy your badge?".And i'm not saying this to judge thosw who would buy it, but because it's a logical and possible response people will have. I myself feel it kind of sketchy when people don't show their age on their profile, so why wouldn't someone feel the same to someone who doesn't have a legal verification of their age?
And for last, here's the big elephant in the room: Forging. The video and picture ideas are booth good, but you all should remember it won't avoid people from forging their own IDs. If facebook latinian/spanish RPyers even have People to forge fake birth certificates so Facebook wont delete their accounts for not being real people, what do you think will avoid people from forging a driver's license that looks legit? Even so, there are other ways this can be avoided. A child can easily ask a brother/cousing/older aquaintance to pretend to be themselves and take the picture or do the video, all they have to do is to go by their "impresionators" name at the forums, and there's no way of proving the acount isn't being used by a minor unless they admit so in this case. Everything has a loophole to it, and i'm afraid this woudln't be the exeption.
I know the heart is in the right place when it comes to this feature, I really do. But I don't think this is the way. People will find ways to outsmart this, and they do all across the internet. Sadly, the most efective deffense against this is asking for age and sincerity.
First of, is a problem that affects me personally, and is that this service would be paid. I get it that in the USA, ten dollars isn't much, but it's definetively a price me, and i'm guessing other users of economies similar to mine, can't afford. To put this in perspective, one dollar usd equals to almost 20 argentinian pesos, wich turns the price of this service for me to 200 argentinian pesos. ¿What can you buy with that? A decent lunch, several office supplies, a popular book, groceries for the next 3 days, a good phone charger...It's not huge money, I won't lie, but it's big money, and more than what I can afford investing on a service like this. and this is coming for the argentinian peso, users in other countries my have a dollar-own coin conversion with a higher difference, and thus a higer difficulty to pay for this optional feature.
Second is the deal with the potential identity theft. Many have pointed out that they own no drivers license, and in some countries, the driver's license may also contain personal information. I personally have very few documents that acredit my age, the main one being my Document of National Identification witch holds, in example, things like my: Full name, Picture, Hand Signature, DNI number, Issuing of the DNI's and identification number, asn well expirancy of the document itsefl and due date to renovation. All of this is information I don't feel comfortable giving out if it isn't to a goverment related tramit, and that can expose me to a potential identity tefth. Hell, even if you've only got the name, face, and personal data of a person an identity tefth can be done! (at a lower scale but it can). So yeah, This is one of the major objections to this. Even if the staff hires competent people for this task, nothing is set in stone: The site can be hacked, the info can be leaked...It's a huge risk for something that might be able to be solved easier.
Then, there's the thing with segregation. I'm going to be brief in this because a lot of people have adressed this issue, but this is sure to cause a drift. People who can't own this badge for whatever reason, or simply wont because they don't feel comfortable with it, will be likely to get some sort of exclusion due to this because "hey how do i know you aren't lying if you dont buy your badge?".And i'm not saying this to judge thosw who would buy it, but because it's a logical and possible response people will have. I myself feel it kind of sketchy when people don't show their age on their profile, so why wouldn't someone feel the same to someone who doesn't have a legal verification of their age?
And for last, here's the big elephant in the room: Forging. The video and picture ideas are booth good, but you all should remember it won't avoid people from forging their own IDs. If facebook latinian/spanish RPyers even have People to forge fake birth certificates so Facebook wont delete their accounts for not being real people, what do you think will avoid people from forging a driver's license that looks legit? Even so, there are other ways this can be avoided. A child can easily ask a brother/cousing/older aquaintance to pretend to be themselves and take the picture or do the video, all they have to do is to go by their "impresionators" name at the forums, and there's no way of proving the acount isn't being used by a minor unless they admit so in this case. Everything has a loophole to it, and i'm afraid this woudln't be the exeption.
I know the heart is in the right place when it comes to this feature, I really do. But I don't think this is the way. People will find ways to outsmart this, and they do all across the internet. Sadly, the most efective deffense against this is asking for age and sincerity.
The last reply really sums up how concerned I've become for this whole thing, adding in gender identity as well. I'm afraid I have to really take back my Go on this and say that I think I would rather not have it become a thing at all.
PrettySir wrote:
The last reply really sums up how concerned I've become for this whole thing, adding in gender identity as well. I'm afraid I have to really take back my Go on this and say that I think I would rather not have it become a thing at all.
I third the no-go as well. I know if I told my mom this, she'd be like: No way. The rp site is not something to put my ID up on, even if it would be a brief thing. And I agree with her. Even if it would be optional, I find it not that good a thing. Those who know me well enough know I am of proper age. If someone doesn't want to believe me, well that's them.
I'm seeing a lot of feelings being shared that are absolutely valid, but I also think some of them some of the arguments* based on those feelings are misplaced or formed on an assumption that isn't true.
*I initially wrote 'them' but I meant the arguments being presented, I apologize for that!
Regarding the whole segregation thing: it's already happening a LOT. Like, a LOT lot. Half the adults I talk to already have a firm rule setup that says 'unless you show your age on your profile and you're 18+ we're not talking, you must verify with me in some believable way that you're as old as you say you are before we communicate'. Adding a badge that officially verifies someone's age will not change anything about this existing mindset and selection process. It will only build on the already existing method of picking RP partners people are currently maintaining. It will not create discrimination and people won't just suddenly stop playing en masse with people without badges. In fact, I firmly believe that people will end up socializing more because the added layer of confirmation means someone is less likely to be lying. If someone isn't already willing to RP with you right now because they're mistrustful of your age, they won't RP with you later when people have age verification badges either.
'But it costs money that I can't afford' being a reason to vote no is one that I find personally very upsetting. Shooting down an entire feature that will help people prevent going to jail in real life because your current financial situation means you won't get to do this right away yourself is something I just don't understand. This is optional, and like I explained above, the fear for segregation feels unfounded to me.
This is like saying that we should stop having Epicness and Epic Templates because some people can't afford it, and because it gives Epic users status within the community wherein people only choose to RP with people who have Epic Templates.
Regarding security, I'm disappointed about the lack of faith in Kim's abilities to provide something that is absolutely secure and up to par with current security standards, potentially even more secure than official government applications that get way more information from you on a yearly basis than you'd ever submit to RPR. I understand that I'm biased because I've been on the RPR for over 7.5 years and I've had the opportunity to ask Kim lots of questions on how she handles sensitive information, but still. Government applications are typically not as secure as we believe they are, and I personally have not a single doubt in my mind that Kim would provide us with something above the same level or even way beyond better than what everyone is familiar with and trusts.
Forgery is always a possibility, but I get the impression some people think forgery is always flawless and can't be discerned or is easy to do. It really isn't. The scenario of getting an actual adult to go through a strange process of writing a phrase down and making hand gestures while showing a valid form of ID for a minor to be verified is bizarre to me. Not only would they be partaking in serious identity fraud and putting a minor in jeopardy of sexual misconduct, I don't think any adult sane of mind would do this without questioning the motives first and foremost and being careful about where this information ends up at in the first place.
We also can't compare RPR to a site as massive and unregulated as Facebook. FB also doesn't think expression of hate speech, inciting violence and sending unsolicited pictures of genitals are a big deal that violate their community standards in over half the cases I reported such things, I'd hardly use them or any other social media site with literally millions of users as an example to compare RPR and RPR's policies to, those are two different worlds with different regulations.
Ultimately we're looking at a tool provided to help prevent real life jail time and real life sexual misconduct with a child on someone's record for life because minors lie and put adults at risk. Can you honestly blame someone for being overly selective and picky with whom they RP or converse with if their motivation is to prevent something as dramatically serious as this?
My question is: do some of you really think other people don't deserve added layers of optional protection just because you couldn't afford it or would be uncomfortable sharing your information with RPR?
*I initially wrote 'them' but I meant the arguments being presented, I apologize for that!
Regarding the whole segregation thing: it's already happening a LOT. Like, a LOT lot. Half the adults I talk to already have a firm rule setup that says 'unless you show your age on your profile and you're 18+ we're not talking, you must verify with me in some believable way that you're as old as you say you are before we communicate'. Adding a badge that officially verifies someone's age will not change anything about this existing mindset and selection process. It will only build on the already existing method of picking RP partners people are currently maintaining. It will not create discrimination and people won't just suddenly stop playing en masse with people without badges. In fact, I firmly believe that people will end up socializing more because the added layer of confirmation means someone is less likely to be lying. If someone isn't already willing to RP with you right now because they're mistrustful of your age, they won't RP with you later when people have age verification badges either.
'But it costs money that I can't afford' being a reason to vote no is one that I find personally very upsetting. Shooting down an entire feature that will help people prevent going to jail in real life because your current financial situation means you won't get to do this right away yourself is something I just don't understand. This is optional, and like I explained above, the fear for segregation feels unfounded to me.
This is like saying that we should stop having Epicness and Epic Templates because some people can't afford it, and because it gives Epic users status within the community wherein people only choose to RP with people who have Epic Templates.
Regarding security, I'm disappointed about the lack of faith in Kim's abilities to provide something that is absolutely secure and up to par with current security standards, potentially even more secure than official government applications that get way more information from you on a yearly basis than you'd ever submit to RPR. I understand that I'm biased because I've been on the RPR for over 7.5 years and I've had the opportunity to ask Kim lots of questions on how she handles sensitive information, but still. Government applications are typically not as secure as we believe they are, and I personally have not a single doubt in my mind that Kim would provide us with something above the same level or even way beyond better than what everyone is familiar with and trusts.
Forgery is always a possibility, but I get the impression some people think forgery is always flawless and can't be discerned or is easy to do. It really isn't. The scenario of getting an actual adult to go through a strange process of writing a phrase down and making hand gestures while showing a valid form of ID for a minor to be verified is bizarre to me. Not only would they be partaking in serious identity fraud and putting a minor in jeopardy of sexual misconduct, I don't think any adult sane of mind would do this without questioning the motives first and foremost and being careful about where this information ends up at in the first place.
We also can't compare RPR to a site as massive and unregulated as Facebook. FB also doesn't think expression of hate speech, inciting violence and sending unsolicited pictures of genitals are a big deal that violate their community standards in over half the cases I reported such things, I'd hardly use them or any other social media site with literally millions of users as an example to compare RPR and RPR's policies to, those are two different worlds with different regulations.
Ultimately we're looking at a tool provided to help prevent real life jail time and real life sexual misconduct with a child on someone's record for life because minors lie and put adults at risk. Can you honestly blame someone for being overly selective and picky with whom they RP or converse with if their motivation is to prevent something as dramatically serious as this?
My question is: do some of you really think other people don't deserve added layers of optional protection just because you couldn't afford it or would be uncomfortable sharing your information with RPR?
If it's a matter of price, maybe there could be an incentive where people who get verified in a certain amount of time after it would be rolled out, where they get a free month of epic alongside, for example.
I'm 100% for age verification, and everyone has to think politically about this; do you want to add something that's beneficial for the wider community at large, or not because it doesn't affect you directly that you would then deny anyone else from benefiting from it?
Besides, perhaps it's not the main point, but here's a thing. It wouldn't be imperative to purchase age identification to prove you're an adult just so you can roleplay on RPR. All this impacts directly on is your ability to roleplay adult topics with other people on RPR specifically. SFW can still be roleplayed on RPR regardless of an adult badge or not.
I'm 100% for age verification, and everyone has to think politically about this; do you want to add something that's beneficial for the wider community at large, or not because it doesn't affect you directly that you would then deny anyone else from benefiting from it?
Besides, perhaps it's not the main point, but here's a thing. It wouldn't be imperative to purchase age identification to prove you're an adult just so you can roleplay on RPR. All this impacts directly on is your ability to roleplay adult topics with other people on RPR specifically. SFW can still be roleplayed on RPR regardless of an adult badge or not.
Mori wrote:
If it's a matter of price, maybe there could be an incentive where people who get verified in a certain amount of time after it would be rolled out, where they get a free month of epic alongside, for example.
I already reached out to some people to let them know I can help pay for theirs if this becomes a thing when the topic was first posted, and several other people have also mentioned they're willing to chip in to cover costs for other people because of how important this is.
Mori wrote:
All this impacts directly on is your ability to roleplay adult topics with other people on RPR specifically.
Not even that much. It impacts people's ability to make safer choices for who they talk to and RP with, nothing more.
At the end of the day what this boils down to is that we are all different. Different things will hold a different weight for everyone. For Cacophony the weight of the risk for his entire livelihood is very real. For Winter's Fury the financial weight is very real, whether someone offers to pay it for them or not.
This is why some people are passionate about hockey and others, politics. Neither is good nor bad. They simply carry a different weight. People who have clean water do not readily think about it as being a priviledge as they refill their water glass for the fourth time that day, just as a woman will not think twice about.lipstick, whereas a transgendered woman may find it a world of freedom to be able to wear it.
These feelings are developped by our environments and nurturing growing up, our experiences, our personal biases. All are valid. There are no ifs, ands or buts.
For the people who are for, I say let's do it. You cannot put a price on the feeling of safety. For the people against, and are adults, I say please make a full blown article explaining and advocating why some people chose not to and why that's okay too for if and when this feature is implemented.
In this case there needs to be balance
This is why some people are passionate about hockey and others, politics. Neither is good nor bad. They simply carry a different weight. People who have clean water do not readily think about it as being a priviledge as they refill their water glass for the fourth time that day, just as a woman will not think twice about.lipstick, whereas a transgendered woman may find it a world of freedom to be able to wear it.
These feelings are developped by our environments and nurturing growing up, our experiences, our personal biases. All are valid. There are no ifs, ands or buts.
For the people who are for, I say let's do it. You cannot put a price on the feeling of safety. For the people against, and are adults, I say please make a full blown article explaining and advocating why some people chose not to and why that's okay too for if and when this feature is implemented.
In this case there needs to be balance
I'm not going to feel bad for realizing that there still could be better options out there than this idea and that this one has it's own risks too. It's unfair to say people are being misguided for reading through ALL of these arguments against and for the optional feature. I have all my faith in Kim for being incredible at her job and finding the best that she can, but there are still serious concerns on it for me. I'm unsubscribing from this topic as I've said my final peace on it.
RE-Edit; I want to make it clear that I'm not against age verification. I'm for that entirely, but I'm also for finding another way or otherwise if this is the only option, then I'm for that too.
RE-Edit; I want to make it clear that I'm not against age verification. I'm for that entirely, but I'm also for finding another way or otherwise if this is the only option, then I'm for that too.
Everything Sanne said is what I wanted to convey. It would be 100% optional. If you are worried about identity theft or don't want your gender to shown, no problem! However perhaps in the future we can come up with a solution to help out people with gender dysphoria(Spelling?) so that everyone can feel safe. I fully believe it will not have much impact on the RP community. Yes there will be elitist, there will always be that pick and choose what people they want to rp with and if its if you have badge or not, oh well. Just move on to the next person. Then there are people that need to be safe for their careers. You have to respect their decision and not take it as a direct attack. Just as they respect your decision to not get verified. Telling one person they should just leave the site if they're worried about minors is unfair. Everyone deserves the right to use this website.
I completely trust that Kim will find THE most qualified person for the job and make sure everything goes flawlessly. This will not happen over night. I could see this taking a year or more because Kim cares about her children and will make sure no one is at risk.
I completely trust that Kim will find THE most qualified person for the job and make sure everything goes flawlessly. This will not happen over night. I could see this taking a year or more because Kim cares about her children and will make sure no one is at risk.
(In response to the RAW PASSION of some of these posts...)
Alright folks, I understand we're all passionate about this topic for various reasons. Let's take it down just a wee notch--everyone has valid pros and cons, others have had counters to them.
From a moderation and site safety standpoint, I am for this. Sniffing out kids lying about their ages is something we do seemingly biweekly these days, now that the RPR has such a big userbase. We are not Facebook sized, but for five volunteer moderators and one site administrator, you are a lot of people to watch over and protect.
Just for that alone, I'd appreciate a verification. I'd work easier knowing the badge means User A is an actual adult and not someone -17 I'll have to take action against earlier.
Secondly, as far as I see, the badge is nothing more than an age-based Twitter Verified Icon. Twitter verifies which Famous Person accounts are legitimate. Here we'd do it with ages.
If we impliment this and someone declines to play with you, and I am speaking of being polite in their rejection, that is that user's right. Users can already decline play why-ever they like, and age is already a big factor without a badge.
If someone harasses you about having or not having a badge, that's when you come to us.
On the subject of money, the RPR is a bigger site than 7 years ago, and this is a pretty hefty feature to implement--it needs the income to compensate the time and energy to get the badges into the right hands. People have already generously offered to assist in paying for other users. You don't have to take them up on it, but it is something to consider.
As for transgender worries, which are also absolutely legitimate, I don't have a ready answer. I certainly will never tell you to Deal With It or Get Over It. I want y'all to feel safe too. But I'm a cisgender female with no heavy personal experience on the subject, so I don't have a solution to your worries. And for that I am deeply sorry.
Alrighty, I've said my brewing thoughts. I need the first coffee of my day--I'll come read this thread further another time.
Alright folks, I understand we're all passionate about this topic for various reasons. Let's take it down just a wee notch--everyone has valid pros and cons, others have had counters to them.
From a moderation and site safety standpoint, I am for this. Sniffing out kids lying about their ages is something we do seemingly biweekly these days, now that the RPR has such a big userbase. We are not Facebook sized, but for five volunteer moderators and one site administrator, you are a lot of people to watch over and protect.
Just for that alone, I'd appreciate a verification. I'd work easier knowing the badge means User A is an actual adult and not someone -17 I'll have to take action against earlier.
Secondly, as far as I see, the badge is nothing more than an age-based Twitter Verified Icon. Twitter verifies which Famous Person accounts are legitimate. Here we'd do it with ages.
If we impliment this and someone declines to play with you, and I am speaking of being polite in their rejection, that is that user's right. Users can already decline play why-ever they like, and age is already a big factor without a badge.
If someone harasses you about having or not having a badge, that's when you come to us.
On the subject of money, the RPR is a bigger site than 7 years ago, and this is a pretty hefty feature to implement--it needs the income to compensate the time and energy to get the badges into the right hands. People have already generously offered to assist in paying for other users. You don't have to take them up on it, but it is something to consider.
As for transgender worries, which are also absolutely legitimate, I don't have a ready answer. I certainly will never tell you to Deal With It or Get Over It. I want y'all to feel safe too. But I'm a cisgender female with no heavy personal experience on the subject, so I don't have a solution to your worries. And for that I am deeply sorry.
Alrighty, I've said my brewing thoughts. I need the first coffee of my day--I'll come read this thread further another time.
I apologize, I used the word misguided but I meant misplaced. For clarification, I was referring to the arguments being used in response to the feelings being expressed, not the feelings themselves. I absolutely understand the concern.
To clarify towards everyone else: what I struggle with right now is that some people are saying that because they wouldn't use it, and they are skeptical about safety, it basically means they are also voting against me and many other users being able to use it even if it literally would never affect their safety whatsoever. I always make sure my partners are of age before I venture into certain topics. I'm also painfully aware every time that if a person did lie to me, I could go to jail, I could have a child molester charge on my record for the rest of my life even though I did everything right. The law sometimes doesn't work in ways that are fair after all.
If this feature would be implemented and you have concerns about the safety of your information, or your gender identity etc. then you would experience literally nothing from this implementation. You have to do nothing to remain safe with this feature in place. So I apologize for coming across as very blunt and passionate, but whereas you'd have the option to just not use it, I would have no option to additionally protect myself.
The fact people are appearing to value their feelings and concerns about their information's safety over my safety concerning potentially going to jail, when this feature being optional would value everyone's feelings and concerns equally, is honestly upsetting.
Edit: I'd also like to say that if there is a better alternative to this method, I'm 100% for it. But so far I've not seen anyone make a suggestion for something better, which adds to the frustration of feeling that my concerns are denied and no alternative is being presented.
Edit2: I also have no issues with people saying "I would never use this because I have concerns". That is absolutely okay in my book, just like how people get to choose who to interact with and whether or not they put money into RPR for Epicness etc. in case I wasn't clear about that either.
To clarify towards everyone else: what I struggle with right now is that some people are saying that because they wouldn't use it, and they are skeptical about safety, it basically means they are also voting against me and many other users being able to use it even if it literally would never affect their safety whatsoever. I always make sure my partners are of age before I venture into certain topics. I'm also painfully aware every time that if a person did lie to me, I could go to jail, I could have a child molester charge on my record for the rest of my life even though I did everything right. The law sometimes doesn't work in ways that are fair after all.
If this feature would be implemented and you have concerns about the safety of your information, or your gender identity etc. then you would experience literally nothing from this implementation. You have to do nothing to remain safe with this feature in place. So I apologize for coming across as very blunt and passionate, but whereas you'd have the option to just not use it, I would have no option to additionally protect myself.
The fact people are appearing to value their feelings and concerns about their information's safety over my safety concerning potentially going to jail, when this feature being optional would value everyone's feelings and concerns equally, is honestly upsetting.
Edit: I'd also like to say that if there is a better alternative to this method, I'm 100% for it. But so far I've not seen anyone make a suggestion for something better, which adds to the frustration of feeling that my concerns are denied and no alternative is being presented.
Edit2: I also have no issues with people saying "I would never use this because I have concerns". That is absolutely okay in my book, just like how people get to choose who to interact with and whether or not they put money into RPR for Epicness etc. in case I wasn't clear about that either.
Copper_Dragon wrote:
As for transgender worries, which are also absolutely legitimate, I don't have a ready answer. I certainly will never tell you to Deal With It or Get Over It. I want y'all to feel safe too. But I'm a cisgender female with no heavy personal experience on the subject, so I don't have a solution to your worries. And for that I am deeply sorry.
I do not speak for every transgender person, but I will tackle this as best I can with corroboration with someone outside of RPR.
We have to deal with dysphoric things all the time, but the nice thing is that Kim has already stated she would want someone outside of RPR to handle this and that this is optional. For people who worry about the dysphoria, you can rest assured that the person who sees your ID is not going to be looking at your profile going "Well, this person has features like X, so I am going to tell everyone to use X pronouns." They will also be focusing on your age, not your name or sex marker. I'm certain with the efforts Kim has made in the past to be both inclusive of all genders and protect RPR's members as a whole if she noticed this hypothetical person making remarks this hypothetical person making remarks about the transgender members of the community they would get a swift boot. Kim has supported our community with every query and concern we have brought her and this will be no exception.
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