If you have no knowledge of a situation, you are not given detail or information of the unknown situation, but are asked to apologize for hurting someone with no knowledge of how or why whatever you did hurt that person, should you have to apologize?
Would "Sorry, I didn't know?" suffice?
It's a situation where I'm being asked to apologize specifically for hurting that person.
This is going to sound kind of rude, but you should only ever apologize if you mean it. Otherwise it's not an apology, it's just hollow words to make someone feel better. If someone refuses to tell you what you did wrong there seems to be a communication breakdown. Something I am sure you are already aware of. My advice? (If you want to take it) Explain why it it important that you know what you did wrong and how that can help you to avoid making such mistakes in the future. Try to use "I feel" statements and stay away from the realms of accusation. A lot of times it can be hurtful if someone accuses you of being in the wrong, and already they themselves are feeling hurt, so it is something that should be handled with a degree of emotional maturity. Trying always to understand how the other party is feeling and taking a step away if things get heated before anyone says something they may regret.
TL,DR: It's complicated, but no, not if you don't mean it.
TL,DR: It's complicated, but no, not if you don't mean it.
Kruhee wrote:
This is going to sound kind of rude, but you should only ever apologize if you mean it. Otherwise it's not an apology, it's just hollow words to make someone feel better. If someone refuses to tell you what you did wrong there seems to be a communication breakdown. Something I am sure you are already aware of. My advice? (If you want to take it) Explain why it it important that you know what you did wrong and how that can help you to avoid making such mistakes in the future. Try to use "I feel" statements and stay away from the realms of accusation. A lot of times it can be hurtful if someone accuses you of being in the wrong, and already they themselves are feeling hurt, so it is something that should be handled with a degree of emotional maturity. Trying always to understand how the other party is feeling and taking a step away if things get heated before anyone says something they may regret.
TL,DR: It's complicated, but no, not if you don't mean it.
TL,DR: It's complicated, but no, not if you don't mean it.
I explained that I cannot apologize for something I don't understand or don't know what happened. I was actually accused of hurting them and every attempt at finding out how has been refused and told that my wanting to know or need to know is not important. That the reason is not important. No matter how I said I felt I was told it wasn't important and that I need to show remorse regardless of any possible facts and that my apologizing for this person being hurt was more important than anything else.
My view is that apologies are a recognition of guilt and accepting being guilty. I was even told that this wasn't how apologies worked or what they meant. That apologizing to simply bury a hatchet was more important.
PrettySir wrote:
I explained that I cannot apologize for something I don't understand or don't know what happened. I was actually accused of hurting them and every attempt at finding out how has been refused and told that my wanting to know or need to know is not important. That the reason is not important. No matter how I said I felt I was told it wasn't important and that I need to show remorse regardless of any possible facts and that my apologizing for this person being hurt was more important than anything else.
My comeback to that would be, if it isn't important that you know, why is it important that you apologize?
I would stick to your guns, and make sure you explain to them that you can't (not won't, but can't) apologize until you know what you are apologizing for. You should refuse to apologize until you are made aware of what you are apologizing for, so that you can speak (or type) the words with honesty, and be able to avoid hurting them again in the future.
Again, stick to your guns; don't apologize until they explain what happened that requires your apology.
‘Until I know what I’ve done to hurt them an apology really doesn’t have much meaning because there’s no way to guarantee I won’t repeat the behavior in the future. I am sorry they feel hurt by something I’ve done, for what that’s worth.’
If your feelings don’t matter, why do theirs?
It’s actions and consequences.
No, you are not obligated to apologize. You are never obligated. It defeats the purpose. The point. An apology only means something if it’s what you want. If you feel you should.
The fact they do not care about your feelings suggests there is more to it then that you hurt them. Their feelings matter. Yours don’t. To me it seems more like a power play/manipulation in what ever social relationship this is.
But, this person wants you to. So the question Is it worth it to you to do, or not? Are you willing to potentially end this relationship, or are you willing to sacrifice your own personal values?
It’s actions and consequences.
No, you are not obligated to apologize. You are never obligated. It defeats the purpose. The point. An apology only means something if it’s what you want. If you feel you should.
The fact they do not care about your feelings suggests there is more to it then that you hurt them. Their feelings matter. Yours don’t. To me it seems more like a power play/manipulation in what ever social relationship this is.
But, this person wants you to. So the question Is it worth it to you to do, or not? Are you willing to potentially end this relationship, or are you willing to sacrifice your own personal values?
To keep it short. Do apologize. It's best to forgive and to forget. Take the burden that comes with it, and make peace between people. It's what I always do.
TaintedCaribou wrote:
If your feelings don’t matter, why do theirs?
It’s actions and consequences.
No, you are not obligated to apologize. You are never obligated. It defeats the purpose. The point. An apology only means something if it’s what you want. If you feel you should.
The fact they do not care about your feelings suggests there is more to it then that you hurt them. Their feelings matter. Yours don’t. To me it seems more like a power play/manipulation in what ever social relationship this is.
But, this person wants you to. So the question Is it worth it to you to do, or not? Are you willing to potentially end this relationship, or are you willing to sacrifice your own personal values?
It’s actions and consequences.
No, you are not obligated to apologize. You are never obligated. It defeats the purpose. The point. An apology only means something if it’s what you want. If you feel you should.
The fact they do not care about your feelings suggests there is more to it then that you hurt them. Their feelings matter. Yours don’t. To me it seems more like a power play/manipulation in what ever social relationship this is.
But, this person wants you to. So the question Is it worth it to you to do, or not? Are you willing to potentially end this relationship, or are you willing to sacrifice your own personal values?
I don't know that I agree with this.
An apology means different things to different people. It can be as simple as acknowledging someone else's feelings matter, even if you feel justified in your course of action.
'Look, I don't know what I've done to upset you, but I'm very sorry that you're upset,' can be a perfectly valid apology, if you're genuinely sorry they're upset. And that might be all they want to hear. They want their feelings acknowledged and validated as important to you. Maybe what they're upset about is silly, and they know it's silly. That doesn't change the fact that they're upset and just hearing that you care about that is enough to make them feel better.
There's no shame in being empathetic. You don't need to sacrifice your 'personal values' to acknowledge someone else's feelings, even if you don't understand those feelings.
It's up to PrettySir to decide if they feel like they're in a toxic, manipulative situation and we, the peanut gallery, certainly don't have enough details to infer that.
No one needs to apologize. There are times in one's life where sticking to your guns and refusing to apologize is the right course of action. But, if you care about the person's feelings and it doesn't cost you anything, why not just apologize? It'll help them feel better and when they feel better, perhaps you can have an adult, civil conversation about what caused the offense to better understand it and perhaps keep it from happening again.
If this becomes a pattern with your relationship with the person, then you'll need to reevaluate their place in your life.
Corinthi wrote:
TaintedCaribou wrote:
If your feelings don’t matter, why do theirs?
It’s actions and consequences.
No, you are not obligated to apologize. You are never obligated. It defeats the purpose. The point. An apology only means something if it’s what you want. If you feel you should.
The fact they do not care about your feelings suggests there is more to it then that you hurt them. Their feelings matter. Yours don’t. To me it seems more like a power play/manipulation in what ever social relationship this is.
But, this person wants you to. So the question Is it worth it to you to do, or not? Are you willing to potentially end this relationship, or are you willing to sacrifice your own personal values?
It’s actions and consequences.
No, you are not obligated to apologize. You are never obligated. It defeats the purpose. The point. An apology only means something if it’s what you want. If you feel you should.
The fact they do not care about your feelings suggests there is more to it then that you hurt them. Their feelings matter. Yours don’t. To me it seems more like a power play/manipulation in what ever social relationship this is.
But, this person wants you to. So the question Is it worth it to you to do, or not? Are you willing to potentially end this relationship, or are you willing to sacrifice your own personal values?
I don't know that I agree with this.
An apology means different things to different people. It can be as simple as acknowledging someone else's feelings matter, even if you feel justified in your course of action.
'Look, I don't know what I've done to upset you, but I'm very sorry that you're upset,' can be a perfectly valid apology, if you're genuinely sorry they're upset. And that might be all they want to hear. They want their feelings acknowledged and validated as important to you. Maybe what they're upset about is silly, and they know it's silly. That doesn't change the fact that they're upset and just hearing that you care about that is enough to make them feel better.
There's no shame in being empathetic. You don't need to sacrifice your 'personal values' to acknowledge someone else's feelings, even if you don't understand those feelings.
It's up to PrettySir to decide if they feel like they're in a toxic, manipulative situation and we, the peanut gallery, certainly don't have enough details to infer that.
No one needs to apologize. There are times in one's life where sticking to your guns and refusing to apologize is the right course of action. But, if you care about the person's feelings and it doesn't cost you anything, why not just apologize? It'll help them feel better and when they feel better, perhaps you can have an adult, civil conversation about what caused the offense to better understand it and perhaps keep it from happening again.
If this becomes a pattern with your relationship with the person, then you'll need to reevaluate their place in your life.
This^^
PrettySir wrote:
I explained that I cannot apologize for something I don't understand or don't know what happened. I was actually accused of hurting them and every attempt at finding out how has been refused and told that my wanting to know or need to know is not important. That the reason is not important. No matter how I said I felt I was told it wasn't important and that I need to show remorse regardless of any possible facts and that my apologizing for this person being hurt was more important than anything else.
My view is that apologies are a recognition of guilt and accepting being guilty. I was even told that this wasn't how apologies worked or what they meant. That apologizing to simply bury a hatchet was more important.
My view is that apologies are a recognition of guilt and accepting being guilty. I was even told that this wasn't how apologies worked or what they meant. That apologizing to simply bury a hatchet was more important.
I think… this is far trickier than meets the eye. Most importantly you need to keep a level head because in all honesty it doesn’t appear they are. Seeing as accusations are being tossed around from the other side. In my opinion when you accuse someone you need to provide proof of what was done. Even if it was just ‘hurt feelings’ if it’s not explained what hurt the feelings that is the same as ‘getting mad because someone put onions in your soup when you didn’t tell them you hate onions’… Or something like that. What they are doing at this point is verging on as wrongful as whatever it was you did, seeing as while you did it by accident, they are doing this purposefully.
I would say to tell them that it IS important, but it sounds like they may have defenestrated logic, sad as that is. Instead I offer up this line: “I understand and appreciate your feelings, and your right to them.” If you are not willing to bend to a hollow apology.
In the end it is a question of integrity, morals, and social responsibility. Are you willing to sacrifice your integrity to agree to guilt in a blind verdict? Even if you may not agree to it should you know. Do you think you may be at fault for hurting their feelings? And perhaps most importantly, are you willing to ‘take the high road’ even if it could make you a liar, in order to put this behind you? All for the sake of somebody’s feelings/ perceived rights who does not currently seem to be taking yours into account. Measured of course by how much this person actually means to you.
Corinthi wrote:
TaintedCaribou wrote:
If your feelings don’t matter, why do theirs?
It’s actions and consequences.
No, you are not obligated to apologize. You are never obligated. It defeats the purpose. The point. An apology only means something if it’s what you want. If you feel you should.
The fact they do not care about your feelings suggests there is more to it then that you hurt them. Their feelings matter. Yours don’t. To me it seems more like a power play/manipulation in what ever social relationship this is.
But, this person wants you to. So the question Is it worth it to you to do, or not? Are you willing to potentially end this relationship, or are you willing to sacrifice your own personal values?
It’s actions and consequences.
No, you are not obligated to apologize. You are never obligated. It defeats the purpose. The point. An apology only means something if it’s what you want. If you feel you should.
The fact they do not care about your feelings suggests there is more to it then that you hurt them. Their feelings matter. Yours don’t. To me it seems more like a power play/manipulation in what ever social relationship this is.
But, this person wants you to. So the question Is it worth it to you to do, or not? Are you willing to potentially end this relationship, or are you willing to sacrifice your own personal values?
I don't know that I agree with this.
An apology means different things to different people. It can be as simple as acknowledging someone else's feelings matter, even if you feel justified in your course of action.
'Look, I don't know what I've done to upset you, but I'm very sorry that you're upset,' can be a perfectly valid apology, if you're genuinely sorry they're upset. And that might be all they want to hear. They want their feelings acknowledged and validated as important to you. Maybe what they're upset about is silly, and they know it's silly. That doesn't change the fact that they're upset and just hearing that you care about that is enough to make them feel better.
There's no shame in being empathetic. You don't need to sacrifice your 'personal values' to acknowledge someone else's feelings, even if you don't understand those feelings.
It's up to PrettySir to decide if they feel like they're in a toxic, manipulative situation and we, the peanut gallery, certainly don't have enough details to infer that.
No one needs to apologize. There are times in one's life where sticking to your guns and refusing to apologize is the right course of action. But, if you care about the person's feelings and it doesn't cost you anything, why not just apologize? It'll help them feel better and when they feel better, perhaps you can have an adult, civil conversation about what caused the offense to better understand it and perhaps keep it from happening again.
If this becomes a pattern with your relationship with the person, then you'll need to reevaluate their place in your life.
...I’m not really sure where your disagreement with what I said is.
It sounds like you’re essentially saying the same thing I did, but more eloquently, to which, thank you. My words sometimes do not convey what I intend to, which may have happened here.
Thank you everyone for your input. I appreciate the discussion that has taken place and am now closing the topic. I do not want to air our ant further laundry on this subject because it would be disrespectful to them, the other party involved, and only make a scene where one is not required.
This has been lovely.
This has been lovely.
Hello 
From what you've written, I'm with TaintedCaribou on the their feelings matter vs. yours don't matter thing being weird. If it's a one-time thing, maybe they're just being insensitive towards you because they're upset, but if this happens repeatedly I would consider taking steps to eliminate the power imbalance that this creates.
I've noticed that there is a way of viewing feelings in "polite" cultures where people who are hurt by someone expect the other party to apologise. I do not hail from such a polite culture. So, personally, I've often treated other people's feelings as something they're perfectly entitled to but that won't alter my behaviour. And, lo and behold, a lot of people got the message and they're feeling much less upset about my decisions than they have felt in the past! According to the book Pulling Your Own Strings (which I really like and recommend), that's because people will often get upset to exert power over you and when that doesn't work, they end up giving up and not getting upset/hurt anymore. This is not to say that they're consciously manipulative (many people just learn this as kids and mimic the behaviour without thinking about it), or that this is happening in your case. It's just something to consider.
Despite saying all this, if this was an important-ish relationship, I'd probably look for a way to apologise that wouldn't compromise my integrity and would, hopefully, make the other party feel less hurt. But that's a really difficult thing to do if you don't even know what you did to hurt them.
From what you've written, I'm with TaintedCaribou on the their feelings matter vs. yours don't matter thing being weird. If it's a one-time thing, maybe they're just being insensitive towards you because they're upset, but if this happens repeatedly I would consider taking steps to eliminate the power imbalance that this creates.I've noticed that there is a way of viewing feelings in "polite" cultures where people who are hurt by someone expect the other party to apologise. I do not hail from such a polite culture. So, personally, I've often treated other people's feelings as something they're perfectly entitled to but that won't alter my behaviour. And, lo and behold, a lot of people got the message and they're feeling much less upset about my decisions than they have felt in the past! According to the book Pulling Your Own Strings (which I really like and recommend), that's because people will often get upset to exert power over you and when that doesn't work, they end up giving up and not getting upset/hurt anymore. This is not to say that they're consciously manipulative (many people just learn this as kids and mimic the behaviour without thinking about it), or that this is happening in your case. It's just something to consider.
Despite saying all this, if this was an important-ish relationship, I'd probably look for a way to apologise that wouldn't compromise my integrity and would, hopefully, make the other party feel less hurt. But that's a really difficult thing to do if you don't even know what you did to hurt them.
PrettySir wrote:
Thank you everyone for your input. I appreciate the discussion that has taken place and am now closing the topic. I do not want to air our ant further laundry on this subject because it would be disrespectful to them, the other party involved, and only make a scene where one is not required.
This has been lovely.
This has been lovely.
Sorry, just noticed you posted this while I was typing. I hope it's okay if I leave my comment up. If not, let me know and I'll replace it with a dot or something
Alecia wrote:
PrettySir wrote:
Thank you everyone for your input. I appreciate the discussion that has taken place and am now closing the topic. I do not want to air our ant further laundry on this subject because it would be disrespectful to them, the other party involved, and only make a scene where one is not required.
This has been lovely.
This has been lovely.
Sorry, just noticed you posted this while I was typing. I hope it's okay if I leave my comment up. If not, let me know and I'll replace it with a dot or something
Your reply is perfectly fine, but thank you for asking. Your reply was very lovely.
Thank you and the best of luck with your situation!
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