I bring to you a paradox for ultra high tech or magic RP: That being the legalities and complications from backwards time travel. My favorite instance of this goes as such:
Person A is born in the year 2000 in Nation A, and has valid identification as such. Person A is, in every sense of the word, an entirely legal citizen. But they are now in the year 1950, but still in Nation A. Their birth certificate will not be issued for fifty years. But yet, their identification is still valid. Or is it? What would you say? What would the law say?
Person A is born in the year 2000 in Nation A, and has valid identification as such. Person A is, in every sense of the word, an entirely legal citizen. But they are now in the year 1950, but still in Nation A. Their birth certificate will not be issued for fifty years. But yet, their identification is still valid. Or is it? What would you say? What would the law say?
Pretty sure IDs have an issue date as well. So the ID would have not been issued yet.
Yes, but is it still a valid ID?
Depends entirely on the society/system. What might be regarded as valid in one, may not be in another.
Most identifications nowadays have an issued and expires by date, such as driver's licenses.
However, as nachtzehren said, it also depends on the society and system. For instance, in the bible, Jesus was born in Bethlehem because his father, Joseph, wanted to go back to be part of the first census.
All in all though, if identification is not yet even a thing, no, it wouldn't be valid. It would be garbage because no one would believe it, as no one else has one. The legal system for that area in that time would not be able to recognize it.
However, as nachtzehren said, it also depends on the society and system. For instance, in the bible, Jesus was born in Bethlehem because his father, Joseph, wanted to go back to be part of the first census.
All in all though, if identification is not yet even a thing, no, it wouldn't be valid. It would be garbage because no one would believe it, as no one else has one. The legal system for that area in that time would not be able to recognize it.
The question is this: Is an ID valid before it's issued, yes or no? I understand they have issue dates, and I am assuming it's in a time and place where ID is considered a valid concept. But the question is this: Do decrees, actions, rulings, and papers made after the present, but with undeniable proof of their existence (for instance, an ID from three years from now, brought back to now, would exist as a physical object), hold merit? Or does someone have to 'wait' until the ruling is passed? Would an adult with an ID made yesterday (that's his, but time travel) be considered a minor? Would it be ethical to use future testimonies to arrest people for crimes they haven't committed?
Sir_Grey wrote:
The question is this: Is an ID valid before it's issued, yes or no? I understand they have issue dates, and I am assuming it's in a time and place where ID is considered a valid concept. But the question is this: Do decrees, actions, rulings, and papers made after the present, but with undeniable proof of their existence (for instance, an ID from three years from now, brought back to now, would exist as a physical object), hold merit? Or does someone have to 'wait' until the ruling is passed? Would an adult with an ID made yesterday (that's his, but time travel) be considered a minor? Would it be ethical to use future testimonies to arrest people for crimes they haven't committed?
It would be viewed as fake and invalid because that time hasn't happened yet. I believe it would honestly get a laugh rather than be viewed as valid.
Edit:however I do remember a movie where people were killed or assassinated in the past for crimes they committed in the future.
PrettySir wrote:
Sir_Grey wrote:
The question is this: Is an ID valid before it's issued, yes or no? I understand they have issue dates, and I am assuming it's in a time and place where ID is considered a valid concept. But the question is this: Do decrees, actions, rulings, and papers made after the present, but with undeniable proof of their existence (for instance, an ID from three years from now, brought back to now, would exist as a physical object), hold merit? Or does someone have to 'wait' until the ruling is passed? Would an adult with an ID made yesterday (that's his, but time travel) be considered a minor? Would it be ethical to use future testimonies to arrest people for crimes they haven't committed?
It would be viewed as fake and invalid because that time hasn't happened yet. I believe it would honestly get a laugh rather than be viewed as valid.
Edit:however I do remember a movie where people were killed or assassinated in the past for crimes they committed in the future.
I believe the film you are thinking about is Minority Report.
But yeah, my first response stands. How can it be valid before it's issued? People would perceive it as a fake, whether there is undeniable proof (whatever that could possibly be), you couldn't use it to pick up alcohol at a store just they'd just toss it back at you. To them, they are in their time. Not from their time? Not an alien spaceship filled with tech to advance our species? Only serves you? Yeah, good luck
Sir_Grey wrote:
The question is this: Is an ID valid before it's issued, yes or no? I understand they have issue dates, and I am assuming it's in a time and place where ID is considered a valid concept. But the question is this: Do decrees, actions, rulings, and papers made after the present, but with undeniable proof of their existence (for instance, an ID from three years from now, brought back to now, would exist as a physical object), hold merit? Or does someone have to 'wait' until the ruling is passed? Would an adult with an ID made yesterday (that's his, but time travel) be considered a minor? Would it be ethical to use future testimonies to arrest people for crimes they haven't committed?
When you put it that way, I'm gonna have to say no.
However, if a country has a law that says "if you are born in this country, you are automatically a citizen," and you time traveled backwards to a time when that law was still in place, I think since you were, indeed, born in that country (in the future), a judge in that country would probably not be able to deny your citizenship. However, whether the documentation you have is valid or not is a different question. I don't think it would be valid. So it would depend on whether the judge believed your story or not. But I could see arguing that you are a citizen, in that situation.
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