Forums » RP Discussion » Avoiding IC consequences.

A post on a LJ community sparked up some thoughts on this, but I didn't want to take that off-topic, so I am posting here instead!

I am totally all for making characters eat IC consequences. If you aren't comfortable with a specific consequence, I believe that there's almost always a way to ICly keep them out of a situation you don't want them in (it may require inventing a reason why they wouldn't be involved in a plot in the first place, but it's there). However, one of the methods I keep in my arsenal is one that I realize can get kind of sketchy--negotiating about the consequences OOC.

I tend to think that you should be able to communicate with a partner and go, "Look, ICly my character isn't smart enough to think of the solutions I did/is too stubborn to try and dodge/simply wouldn't walk away from this. But I have other plans for her/I don't know where to take her after this/I can't handle playing out these consequences. Do you have any thoughts on how we can work this out?" Especially if it's something unexpected, like you thought you were getting involved in a plot about adopting Easter bunnies and didn't realize that also, there were ferrets, in fact the bunnies are ferrets in bunny suits, and you hate ferrets, but your character thinks they're adorable....

(Though you could totally resolve that by giving your character a bad ferret experience, or just saying that the landlord will allow bunnies, but not ferrets, so she can't take one. But not all twists are so easily avoidable, and sometimes it's more like, "you expected a school-trip adventure, but the plot took a left turn and suddenly there are dehabilitating headwounds.")

I do think this can go into bad-RPer territory very easily. I usually try to resolve this by offering a compromise: "I'm not comfortable with <this consequence>, but I have an idea for making it <other consequence> instead."

So how do you folks look at OOC negotiation? Acceptable? Bad form? Are there some reasons you'll accept and some you won't? Are there other ways you prefer to deal with that sort of situation?

RP should be fun. There's no point in continuing an RP you don't enjoy, is there? OOC negotiating is one of the ways to keep things rolling smoothly. You could just as well go "Look, this sucks, I'm out", but you like the player/character/possibilities for this RP too much to just ditch it... so you brain storm.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Depending on the situation at hand I prefer to negotiate things OOCly. Like if it's for something one could expect to happen in a scenario I initiate the consent rule. Is: for a fight I would say something like 'Look. It's a fight. My guy uses swords. This means there is the possibility of limb/life loss. Are you cool with it?' then if they say no then I respond by saying something like 'Ok then. Wounds that would normally do that will just be down graded so they don't pose the fatal consequence for your character. Ie. Chopping off the head is downgraded to a shallow non fatal cut on the neck and so forth. Some circumstances however dictate IC negotiations which can be avoided in manners similar to the examples you provided. Little IC spats about ferrets dressed in bunny costumes is something that should be resolved ICly. Say for instance I despise ferrets, which I don't the fuzzy lil cleptos, but my character likes them. Then I would act as my character would and go accordingly from there. Ie: the landlord not allowing ferrets. Then my character would more than likely take a ferret and keep it secret from the land lord. Try to at least. It's really all a matter of what type of incident is occurring as to rather it should be handled ICly or OOCly.

Oh man, I am actually very close to experiencing this with my one character on Furcadia. She's in a vampy place and she hates this one girl but the guy has plans for the girl to Turn my character, but my character would never let that happen because she hates the girl so much. Unfortunately, my girl is, while harboring a demon, still human. If they used force I wouldn't be able to get out of it, short of godmoding or something.
I'm currently trying to come up with a way to talk to them about this. I was really not wanting my character to be Turned, or at least if she had to be Turned I don't want her Turned by this person. It hasn't come up quite yet, but when the subject does near it then I do believe I will talk to the person OOCly and tell them how I feel about it.
I'm all for discussing things OOCly if need be.

That's something that should be discussed OOC as it falls under the list of drastic evens that require consent prior too. As far as I'm concerned at least it is. Perhaps while discussing it with them you can come to an agreeable conclusion such as instead of being turned by her at least she could just ambush you and feed a bit. Too assist anyone elses here's my personal list of items requiring approval via the consent rule.

Sex/Rape
Death/Dismemberment
Turning Vampiric Lycan or any others
Soul Removal (Yes I have encountered this scenario before)
Feeding (Vampiric based or otherwise)
Kidnapping/Hostage scenarios
Slavery Scenarios

If anyone else wishes to add to this list I feel it may help decrease RP arguments about various subjects thus making the RP universe a bit better for all. I'll go and start a new thread just for Consent rule items.

This all the way. It's also sometimes annoying, on the other hand, to try and weasel their way out of situatuations when, realistically, there is not one unless some god-moddding/sheer dumb luck is done. I don't mind going for an alternate ending as it were but goddamn, discuss it first!

Pretty much my view, yeah.

@CelestinaGrey: That is definitely an OOC discussion situation. Pretty much exactly the type of situation I was thinking of, in fact. Good luck with the discussion!

I like that list! It's a lot like my personal list, though I also add in theft (I play at a couple of games where there's personal inventories and characters' items are important to their progress in-game, which has made me a lot more aware of that; since I also play Pokemon, Pokemon theft is a big deal too). And just about anything that substantially physically affects a character (which includes most of the things on that list, come to think of it), though sex/rape is the really, really big one for me.

I guess my squidginess on the subject is that I have been yelled at before by people saying that if I didn't want to take consequences, I shouldn't have gotten involved in the plot at all... but again, I usually only resort to OOC negotiation when the plot's gone somewhere I didn't expect. (Often not by anyone's intention--y'know, sometimes things just snowball ICly.) And I've also heard a lot of people rant about others being bad RPers because they don't want their characters to take any lasting consequences for their actions and try to plead their way out of it OOC. In fact, the post that sparked this was about exactly that. So I get nervous about going into that territory. ;;

Adding theft to it in the thread I put up for it along with Pregnency/miscarriage/Abortion.

There will always be arguments over lists like that though. Some people enjoy RPing rape, death, violence and so on. Some people don't. You cannot ever make one list that perfectly fits everyone.

As a fun trivia, in addition to that list, I ask for consent for any wound at all. Because most of my fighters would probably evade/parry most blows on reflex. They wouldn't just stay there and take it.

Of course, I also don't automatically connect any hits without consent.

I call that a 'trust factor'. All my attacks in PvP style rps are attempts and I trust in my opponent to not avoid each and every single one especially when their in a position where it's basically impossible to avoid the attack due to their physical positioning or the sheer severity of the attacks power or the like. But that's just me.

I consider that consent, too--it's just not explicitly stated. They're consenting if they get hit, they're not consenting if they don't get hit. If one of us states that something hits, though, that's non-consensual unless we've discussed it beforehand OOC, and I consider it really bad form. (Power-playing bad, etc. Unless it's explicitly stated in the setting/game rules or otherwise arranged beforehand.) I think issues are more likely to arise when it's something impossible to realistically or fairly avoid. For example, the room filling up with fire. Which is when I usually take it to OOC if I have an issue and want to change or mitigate the damage.

I've been told that I cause TOO MUCH trouble when it comes to characters suffering consequences of their actions rofl

Like pregnancy and the like, yah know?

Though, nowadays, I'm doing better about asking my partner before initiating these two-way consequences.

Now-a-days I run by what I call "mostly non-consent". Prior to a roleplay I am aware that there is a possibility of pretty much ANYTHING happening, and if my character's actions lead to those consequences, I will take them like a (wo)man without much fuss. I find it to be more realistic that way, for myself, and oddly enough they are things I can live with.

The "mostly" however comes from someone OoCly being "bored" and going after my character. I do not appreciate that sort of OoC-to-IC-action and will back out of the roleplay altogether if the offender doesn't cease.

The one exception to this rule is rape. I've only done one rape-related roleplay in my life, and it ended with very very bad OoC repercussions from an unrelated party. I do not wish to suffer through that again, so that topic is one where I refuse to give consent.

Yeah, that's my biggie. I don't want to go there, period. Like you, I did it once, but never again; looking back, I think that plotline and the way I played and handled it is the thing I'm most ashamed of in my RPing history (and I did things, back before some good people smacked sense into me, that got me quite justifiably banned from a couple games).

There's a few other things that disturb me nearly as much to play, but those depend on how much I trust the other player and how they write/are willing to write it. The only other times I'll ask for an out are when it would prevent an exciting future plot (and not just for me, but for other people--i.e., in one game I asked for my villain, who is almost certainly going to be punished by her superiors for disobedience, to not be found out and punished until after she'd finished a major event with the hero characters, because half the game is mobilized for this thing). Or if it's going to make a character I enjoy playing unplayable.

Yes, OOC discussion is a viable thing for consequences. Unless:

You've been given plenty of warning by your DM OOCly and continue with it
You've had weeks of clear foreshadowing and don't do anything about trying to discuss it until its already happened.
Its a consequence of a dice roll you chose to make, against the DM's advice.
Or d) All of the above + it happens multiple times in a relatively short time period.


Just my thoughts.

For me it's a very cut and dry thing:

IC Action = IC Consequence.

A -> B

Yes, "B" should be negotiable to an extent, but your character should have to face the consequences of his actions. If not you start to skirt the boarder of the kingdom of Mary-Sue, and that's not a place you want to be.

Example:

Teacher A has an affair with a student, Teacher B (think paladin) finds out about it.
Teacher B confronts Teacher A about it, and Teacher A admits to it.
Teacher B does the responsible thing, and turns Teacher A in.

That's a logical outcome for all of Teacher A's choices. It probably won't be a favorable outcome for Teacher A, since his character is going to be dismissed from his job and very likely arrested (depending on the age of the student). I really don't see anything else that could happen in this situation other than... Teacher B acts way out of character and doesn't turn Teacher A in... but I don't consider that a viable option.

Yes, roleplay is supposed to be fun, but for me that fun comes when the roleplay is realistic. Fantasy role play is amazingly awesome, but even in a world of gnomes, elves and dragons there's going to be a consequence if your character breaks the law or does something stupid. I personally don't try to wiggle my characters out of facing the consequences of their bad decisions... I do tend to try to wiggle out of the good consequences though...

Example:
Hobo finds a wedding ring in the sewer, turns it into the police.
Wedding ring belongs to Wealthy Man, who wants to reward Hobo.
Wealthy Man gives hobo a vast reward.

In this situation, I'd probably try to talk wealthy man's player into buying hobo a meal or something, because it's still a logical outcome, but it doesn't significantly alter my players life...

/ramblerambleramble

I guess what it comes down to for me is that things have to make sense, otherwise the fun isn't there anymore.