hi folks! i've been having some trouble making my two main characters, Iris and Venus, balanced out. i'm trying not to fall into any tropes or stereotypes, as well as avoid making them flat, so i'd love some critique on them! i will love you forever if you take the time to read over their profiles 
<3 i don't have their flaws on their profiles, so have these for your viewing pleasures. c:
Venus' main flaw is that she just doesn't really care- she does the bare minimum in life, and since she doesn't particularly have any close relationships with anyone, she tends to make a lot of bad decisions and put herself in danger a lot. the whole morphine addiction probably doesn't help her either, whoops
Iris' flaw is pretty easy to identify, at least I think. She has little to no morals or ethics, and her pride has led to her making choices that either badly affect her or people working under her. This has led to some internal dilemma in her group, and sooner or later it's probably going to come bite her in the butt. BAD IRIS.
anyways, i'd love to hear any feedback you guys might have!! ;o;
<3 i don't have their flaws on their profiles, so have these for your viewing pleasures. c:Venus' main flaw is that she just doesn't really care- she does the bare minimum in life, and since she doesn't particularly have any close relationships with anyone, she tends to make a lot of bad decisions and put herself in danger a lot. the whole morphine addiction probably doesn't help her either, whoops
Iris' flaw is pretty easy to identify, at least I think. She has little to no morals or ethics, and her pride has led to her making choices that either badly affect her or people working under her. This has led to some internal dilemma in her group, and sooner or later it's probably going to come bite her in the butt. BAD IRIS.
anyways, i'd love to hear any feedback you guys might have!! ;o;
I don't have it in me to read through the profiles at the moment, but I just wanted to say: don't be afraid to use tropes! It's not a bad thing, and frankly it'd be impossible to avoid them entirely. The key is to play with them. Mix them up. Subvert them. Run them straight, but use multiple tropes, since it's a multifaceted character. Figure out how the assorted tropes interact in the specific character, think of why they might apply, consider what sorts of things might make them alter their behavior.
There's folks here who actually try to list out every trope they can that applies to their character, just to better help people understand the character. They're a very useful tool when handled properly.
There's folks here who actually try to list out every trope they can that applies to their character, just to better help people understand the character. They're a very useful tool when handled properly.
I took a quick gander, here's my advice
People aren't defined by their flaws -- nor their virtues. Everyone has both, to varying degrees. Flawed characters are great, but remember that compelling characters have reasons for everything they do. These reasons do not have to be from their history. In fact I actively advise against it. Characters need dreams and desires, and not just in general terms like power and fame. Specific, strong, unique desires that lead them through their histories and their present actions.
Let's take Iris, for example. The first words of her history are: "There is no justification to Iris' actions." If you want to create a compelling and well-rounded character, that cannot be true. Even if the justifications are flawed to the average observer, she must have her own justifications for what she does. Most people who aren't psychopaths find ways to justify what they do, even if they know it's wrong, they find ways to excuse themselves, to provide themselves with exceptions, to justify so that at least in their own minds they can be right.
As for her upbringing. I don't see how someone like her would survive for five minutes in organized crime. Given her upbringing, manipulative or no, she would get chewed up and spit back out because her history doesn't justify the streetwise, intimidation, and violence skills she'd need to survive. Now something that DOES make sense, is say, she gets into minor crime at college. Her parents had this very specific dream for her and she succumbed to her vices because she couldn't live up to their expectations. However without the necessary skills, she would have had a hard time moving up the ladder in that world, which could be a tumultuous part of her history. Or maybe she found a way to use her skills to breeze through college, and instead of a drug kingpin she became a white collar criminal, where her talents of manipulation would be extraordinarily useful in acquiring wealth, property, etc,
Characters don't have to have super tragic pasts, but their pasts have to make sense for their current position. People do "fall from grace" and squander the advantages given to them, but this is usually due to external pressure.
Just remember that you need to ground everything in specific, powerful dreams of the future. Without those, characters fall flat. She doesn't just want to be famous, but how does she want to get there? Doing what? Famous for what?
Does that make sense?
People aren't defined by their flaws -- nor their virtues. Everyone has both, to varying degrees. Flawed characters are great, but remember that compelling characters have reasons for everything they do. These reasons do not have to be from their history. In fact I actively advise against it. Characters need dreams and desires, and not just in general terms like power and fame. Specific, strong, unique desires that lead them through their histories and their present actions.
Let's take Iris, for example. The first words of her history are: "There is no justification to Iris' actions." If you want to create a compelling and well-rounded character, that cannot be true. Even if the justifications are flawed to the average observer, she must have her own justifications for what she does. Most people who aren't psychopaths find ways to justify what they do, even if they know it's wrong, they find ways to excuse themselves, to provide themselves with exceptions, to justify so that at least in their own minds they can be right.
As for her upbringing. I don't see how someone like her would survive for five minutes in organized crime. Given her upbringing, manipulative or no, she would get chewed up and spit back out because her history doesn't justify the streetwise, intimidation, and violence skills she'd need to survive. Now something that DOES make sense, is say, she gets into minor crime at college. Her parents had this very specific dream for her and she succumbed to her vices because she couldn't live up to their expectations. However without the necessary skills, she would have had a hard time moving up the ladder in that world, which could be a tumultuous part of her history. Or maybe she found a way to use her skills to breeze through college, and instead of a drug kingpin she became a white collar criminal, where her talents of manipulation would be extraordinarily useful in acquiring wealth, property, etc,
Characters don't have to have super tragic pasts, but their pasts have to make sense for their current position. People do "fall from grace" and squander the advantages given to them, but this is usually due to external pressure.
Just remember that you need to ground everything in specific, powerful dreams of the future. Without those, characters fall flat. She doesn't just want to be famous, but how does she want to get there? Doing what? Famous for what?
Does that make sense?
Ben wrote:
I took a quick gander, here's my advice
i took some of your advice, and tried to make her motives and narcissistic tendencies more clear. i also added some instances where her lack of experience almost bit her in the butt as you suggested, and i feel like she's a little less flat now. if you have any thoughts on her redone backstory, i'd love to hear them! C:
It's definitely getting there! Nice.
Things definitely make a little more sense with her history now, going to juvie sets her up to make the connections she needs to get further into crime.
When you play her, remember to always be thinking about her dreams, her goals, and how she justifies herself
Nice.Things definitely make a little more sense with her history now, going to juvie sets her up to make the connections she needs to get further into crime.
When you play her, remember to always be thinking about her dreams, her goals, and how she justifies herself
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