Forums » RP Discussion » Furcadian Dreams- a question

Sorry if this is in the wrong Forum

I have a question for staff and dream owners: we all can take compliments, but are you all willing to take complaints and criticism? As much as we all love to hear the good, what about the bad- can you take is constructively, are you all ready to listen?? Should a dream owner make a 'suggestion box' for anonymous suggestions, compliments, criticism and complaints?

And dream owners, in my time of visiting certain dreams I get the good and bad through talking to people... It seems that older players are getting alienated for the mad dash of new players, for the crowd, for the popularity contest that seems to be Furcadia dreams. Are we all overlooking quality for quantity? Or should old players adjust? Honestly are we catering too much for the new that we forget the people who made the dream the bread and butter of Furcadia? Or are you accepting of this fact? Are we 'killing' who we are, what the dream is, the story, bending in this rapid change, unable to find a good medium of change yet keeping who we are and what the dream is, the feel, the character?j

And dreams... I run into a saying 'a dream and its staff area mirror, a reflection, an echo of the management'- often hearing the good, the bad, the ugly of staff and dream owners from people who say 'oh I've been around since before X ever existed'. And granted we will always have bad staff and management in dreams but I also see another issue- its not idling, its more of are dreams really open to new players and characters and people as advertised. Are we actually cornering ourselves into cliches and groups, niches of a dream. Granted human nature we flock to like minded individuals but are we getting closed-minded to others, alienating even? Personally I make new characters periodically for the sole purpose of exploring the cliche system of dreams to see what's up- and so that I as a player don't grow stale.

These questions and ideas I seriously am interested in answers, thoughtful answers and no don't ask for details of who tells me what or anything- this isn't a hate fest, this isn't me singling out any person or dream out as I'm sure a lot of dreams have similar if not exact issues. And no, I'm not trying to be rude.";

As a dream weaver, I always look for criticism and complaints about my dreams. I actually when testing a new dream bring about 5 people in, I then ask them to tell me any problems with the dream they see. I also ask them to try to break the dream's ds in any way possible as a good test run. Without criticism I can not improve something if I do not know something is wrong with it.

As for "quality for quantity?" I have noticed a few packed dreams, however they are packed for all the right reasons, from good rpers, to great dream patches and locations, sometimes all the dream has is good rpers but thats all thats needed for the group of players they have....Ive never seen a packed dream low on quality yet is full of players. Now if you mean someone updated a dream and it loses its main story and purpose in a rp dream to cater to newer players, that would be something I would bring up to the dream builder myself. I would attempt to give some ideas and criticism, in ways they can update the dream for both the old players and to attract some new players. However if its updating the dream's look to get new rpers, thats not always a bad thing, sometimes its needed to get new good rpers to join the already existing group.

Now the saying "a dream and its staff area mirror, a reflection, an echo of the management" I disagree, a dream design or area for its staff to hang out does NOT mirror how the management runs. I have seen newly 'noob' style designed dreams, yet some of them had the best staff running the place given what they had. I think what mirrors the quality of the staff is just the staff, not the dream design.

In short, new dream patches and design of a good quality attract better players to them, to help the dream out with its current rpers in hops of it being better. There are small badly done dreams with great rp groups, but if the dream updates to look better it does help with the flow of new users who could be very good rpers for all. Its not just to get new players, but to improve the look and feel of the dream, and if you happen to get a few new great rpers along the way thats just a bonus.

Anyway I hope I hit a few main points of your thread, its hard to tell really what you mean without you mentioning the type of dream, or give a few names of dreams you mean or some examples of what you mean. However if you wish to go into more depth of what you mean with some small examples, I would be happy to read it and reply some more.

Personally I run several dreams of my own, and have run several in the past, and I think many of your questions rely directly upon what you intend to do with the dream. For example, if you're just wanting a simple dream, like a build a home, or a social hang out, etc, it may behoove you to listen to a number of the people who come in. There's a lot of people who just... wander around aimlessly because they're either new, bored, can't visit or prefer not to visit the most populated areas of the game, most of which are in FurN, which as we all know is *suppose* to keep out anyone under 16.

However, I think if you're setting up a dream, your first goal should be to make it what *you* want it to be, and then make small tweaks, additions, changes, as people suggest, but do not leave your original concept entirely. It's important to tell people your idea for the dream, and help them improve your idea, not simply dub in their own concept in its place. I also think you should take into consideration your 'audience' or demographic, the people you're aiming your dream towards, and find people like that and listen to their ideas and suggestions. Remember that they are just ideas and suggestions. For example, it is more beneficial to listen to someone who you think might, and who you want to come back versus someone who is just randomly dream-hopping for lolz for all of two weeks before they get bored of Furc,leave, or eventually gravitate towards the festering hole of trolls in FurN.

I think if you're looking for Quality, you're going to want people who are also looking for quality, such as good high quality patches, layout, and friendly staff.

I think if you're exploring, its polite only to give critique and suggestions only if they are asked for, otherwise you can easily come off as pompous and rude.

I've personally never heard of the Staff areas of a dream mirroring the staff who work there. That said, I think that's pretty false; I stink staff/ooc areas are designed just to look pretty while people go idle and whatnot.

If the dream being created isn't something that most players seem to be attracted to, the creator has to be prepared that it may never, or may take a very long time for the dream itself to 'get off the ground' so to speak. This is exactly why most high-tech dreams do not do well in Furcadia, because it's already predisposed to being a medieval era game- thats what it's advertised as, so why would Sci-fi buffs look it up?

Sadly I think its instinct to clique up in furc. For some reason most people on the internet act differently than they would in RL, which leads to a lot of people betraying, telling lies, spreading shit, and these create gaps, and gaps create drama, and from drama you get these little groups of people who say "I wont RP with so and so, so, and so, because of X.reason.here." This... is actually sort of good, to an extent. People avoiding people they don't get along with, or have differing game play ideals tends to create less drama, and this is a natural part of human nature. I do think, however, people who apply to be staff at any dream should be people who are more tolerant of other people and play styles, people who avoid drama and work to solve problems where they can. people who talk things out like legitimate, rational adults instead of throwing around ejections, name calling, rumor spreading, and otherwise juvenile behavior. Staff should be carefully, meticulously picked, trial runs seem to work out well. People who step out of line or try to throw around their 'power' should be removed immediately- after all, this is a game, none of that power is actually real, some people fail to remember that, when it comes down to it, all the staff, everyone in every dream is really just another person on the other side of the computer screen, a physical, normal, living, breathing human being... And absolutely nothing more.

Unfortunately, yes, the cliques do alienate certain people, but to be quite fair, if those people are being alienated, it could just simply be because they don't belong with the majority of the people playing in that dream, and need to move on somewhere else, where people are more like them. Words and actions in furc tend to carry a lot of weight, reputation wise, so people really need to be careful with what they're doing, saying, and how they're treating people, because word of mouth carries a lot, especially in a game where we rely entirely on text as our only form of communication. As I'm sure you know, human communication relies on a number of different factors- body language, gestures, expressions, tone, etc, to convey a message, not JUST the words that are spoken... All of these extra forms are lost in translation in text on furcadia, so when speaking to someone, it's important to try to be as clear as you can so as few misunderstandings as possible happen- if they happen at all.

All of this said? I am guilty of all of this, probably. Yep.

This is a very interesting topic! I moved it from Smalltalk to RP Discussion because I think you'll get more attention in RP Discussion due to the subject of managing groups.

We have some interesting articles in our news feeds about managing these that might be a good read for anyone who's interested. I'll see if I can dig those up in a few.

I think the main thing is... criticism has to be constructive. From running a larger dream I have received complaints that were more along the lines of 'this sucks, I think it sucks, it is horrible, you'll lose people' or the language was aggressive/passive-aggressive or down right rude. My number one issue is with the complaints in which the person offers up a bit of wisdom on how I can clearly make the dream better, that they clearly have the answer to what is wrong.. but they have little experience with running an organization/group/dream of that size. How do you communicate that to them without sounding arrogant or simply going 'you're wrong'? The answer is never as simple as most people think.

Constructive criticism is fine and welcomed! But it is uncommon to actually see this and I am speaking inside and outside of Furcadia. Before even bringing up the criticism consider the following: is it something that only effects you? Is it something that effects multiple people in the dream? Are you asking for a change that would only benefit you? Is it something small, or huge? What sort of language are you using (aggressive, passive, assertive about it)? Are you upset/angry?
Now you can start a dialogue.
If someone is legitimately upset with something in my dream I want them to come directly to me. When has criticism where they are clearly upset about something I'd want them to come to me first and foremost and not anyone else. Spreading these complaints and issues create drama and puts the dream in an unneeded negative light and posting in a public forum does just the same. If you can be clear headed about it, without being passive-aggressive, so can I.
**Small edit: One thing, personally, that won't get me doing anything faster is when people try to order me. It is all in the language you use. I've had people try tell me I have to reupload the dream, I have to reset, I have to do this, do that, or this. Personally? I don't have to do a damn thing. It sounds bad, but we're providing a service. Being rude to a server, a taxi driver, IT guy, or cleaning person isn't a good idea for obvious reasons. Be polite, use common sense.

I apologize for going so in depth on how to give proper criticism, it's just the number one issue I am faced with. If I am given a rude reply, don't expect me to be completely open to hearing you out. (On a side note, when a dream owner tells you to drop a subject, best to drop it and don't bother continuing beating that dead horse.) Of course there are times when there are legit issues with dream owners, people being banned for personal reasons, dreams being taken down for no reason, and sometimes you can't do anything about it. At those times, sadly, you will have to move on.

Cliches, cliques, and groups will always be there. You have them in school, you have them in work, you have them online. You have the old-farts who try to tout their seniority like a badge, you have those unaccepting to newbies, you have the elite-RPers... the list could go on and on and on (though I don't believe people can really be divvied up into one group or should be at all.) The reality is, cliques are incredibly difficult to deal with. As a dream owner I don't have the time or the desire to control who people are friends with or how they are friends with (of course trolling shouldn't be tolerated.) And if that clique doesn't want to include you... do you seriously want to be part of their group? Cliches can be dealt with by encouraging unique characters and plot lines. Trends are insanely easy to start, I've started a few and watch a few start.

Edit, with regards to a suggestion box: I don't really see a suggestion box being that helpful. I see it as a way to troll first and fore most but I may be pessimistic. As I said previously, you need to create some form of dialogue and the only way dialogue can happen is with two people talking and exchanging comments. When you submit an anonymous suggestion you can't create that dialogue which is essential to dealing with the issue/discussing the suggestion.
I get numerous suggestions but sometimes they just can't be implemented either due to it being impossible (simply can't do it with dragon speak or phoenix speak) or not having the man power to do it. For some reason there is this fear from patrons that speaking up will get you banned. I think this fear has been put into place due to poor dream owners (banning with little/no reason as an example) and that is really, really sad. That is why you need to be able to communicate and offer constructive criticism in a polite and non-aggressive way.
If you truly believe the dream owner would ban you or the dream owner has been known to do it (legit known to do it, none of these supposed rumours) sending an anonymous email might be the best. HOWEVER, your email will probably be ignored if this dream owner is the type of person who'd ban you for having a (well thought out, no yelling or name calling or passive aggressiveness) opinion.

Dylan, YES!! This applies to just about any type of game or website (cough cough).

I may or may not have had you and the mods in mind, Kim.

As a dream admin, yes, I generally do like to hear constructive thoughts about ways we can improve, or be more inclusive.

The trouble is that usually the complaints you get are from people who had administrative action taken against them for breaking some rule, and are now very angry about that. You can't give constructive criticism from a place of anger. As Dylan pointed out above, most of this tends to be 'you suck, this place sucks, your mother sucks, and you should feel bad' sort of tripe.

In Nasmara, we focus on quality over quantity and tend to remain small as an accepted result of this (we prefer players who enjoy character research and who do not need a great deal of drama or conflict to be entertained). We also have a rule that makes the dream appear empty at times (we refuse to have people idling in the dream, or using it as an OOC chat room; in Nasmara, if someone is there, they're available right now for RP). Both of these have resulted in constructive criticism focused toward our policies; people suggest relaxing our standards or making OOC rooms - typical things, you'd expect and we have already thought of.

A suggestion box, I feel, would fill up with the angry-ranters from the first paragraph, or the common suggestions from the second, and rarely have anything new.

I find that the most scintillating ideas come from the people who hardly use the forums because they're too shy to have their words in a Forever-Place, and will whisper directly with a thought. We do typically try to implement these things, and make them available in the dream if they benefit more than just that player and their favourite people.

I suppose overall, it's the responsibility of any admin not to have a suggestion box on their forums or the like, but to keep one open in their head to anyone who whispers.

I do agree with the other posters fully that Furcadia is not only rife with cliques, but I'll go ahead and suggest that it was meant to be, simply because anyone CAN make their whole entire world private to themselves if they wish. It's a bunch of treehouses in a forest of ideas, all with their variants of "NO GURLZ ALLOWED" chalked at the bottom. It's not quite a bad thing, or a good thing; it simply is.