Forums » Suggestions & Development Discussion » Age verification badges

This discussion started in another topic that was NOT about age verification on the RPR, so I'm peeling off and posting this for clarification, and to give people a space to discuss this that does not derail that other conversation.

So, here's what had been discussed previously or was floating around my head when I pondered an "age verification" feature for the RPR, for people who wish to prove they are RL adults:

• If someone wanted to go through the age verification process, which would be a purely voluntary thing just like buying Epic Membership is, we'd ask people to submit photos of their driver's license, or other officially-issued ID that showed their full name and birth date. That birthdate would need to match with what they registered with on the site.
• We would request specific things be in these photos of the IDs. For example, a hand-written strip of paper with one's RPR User ID # written on it, as well as your hand making a specific symbol -- this does not eliminate the possibility of photoshopped licenses, but it does dramatically increase the challenge level.
• We would NOT be asking for birth certificates, social security numbers, or other extremely high security information.
• Someone on our end would have to review each submission and try to determine if it seemed legit or not.
• Because it would require so much review, it would cost money to do. It would be a one-time fee, but probably closer to the $10 range than the $0.01 range.
• People who were verified would receive a "verified 18+" badge on their profile, as well as some indicator when they post on the LFRP-AO board (so their characters, including anon, could benefit as well.) Possibly there would be some kind of indicator in PMs too - still up in the air.
• This would be an additional layer of verification for people who want to be really, really safe, not something that was required to access any part of the site. I really don't want to create pay-walls to access sections of the site, and some adults don't really have licenses anyway.
• Something that I've toyed with but no decision had been made about: In moderator cases where someone's age had been massively called into question and we had fears that someone might be causing crimes to be committed but no hard proof, we might waive the fee but require someone go through the age verification process if they want to continue accessing the Adults Only board.

Yes, truly determined people could still get around this system and find ways to lie about their age, but it creates a dramatically higher barrier and gives you MUCH more reason to believe that someone's age on the site is probably what they say it is, and thus very likely more legal protection if it were ever called into question.

You could continue to use the site just as before without needing the badge. The majority of real adults would not bother to obtain them, so not having one would not provide any more or less information than is currently available about the people that you meet on the RPR.

We'd still probably recommend you also ask people directly what their age is before RPing smut with them, even if they had such a badge from us, because it's pretty much always a good idea.

The main challenges to implementing something like this were:

• Someone would have to check all those licenses. That is a lot of work, and not really the moderators' job or a burden I would want to put on them. I might need to hire someone, or else do it myself (which, let's be real, would probably mean I went through all submitted licenses once a month.)
• The fact we are an international site adds additional levels of challenge. It's hard enough knowing what a "legit" license from all 50 states and the territories looks like, harder still to know what a "legit" license in every country in the world looks like. Also, designs change over time. I imagine this process would involve not just looking at the submitted photos, but Googling like crazy to research the submitted licenses.
• There would be some additional site infrastructure and security needed, of course, although there's protocols out there for this kind of thing, or third-party secure "file vaults" we could utilize.
• What would happen if we declined a submitted license? Would you get your money back? You didn't get the thing you paid the money for, but you DID cause someone to do a lot of work to check out your license. Would there be an appeals process? How many appeals would you get? What would it look like?

I have not decided to implement this feature at this time, it's still something just an idea that's being explored. But I thought I'd put it out there for discussion again, since it's clearly a topic that interests people, and I'm always open to hearing ideas for improving the thought.

I'm 100% for this feature the way it is described. I understand the challenges for sure, and the $10 fee seems very reasonable to me considering the time, effort and potential money to hire someone that goes into it. It's a luxury addition to verify your age for peace of mind, not a necessity.

I want to say that I'd also be okay with it being non-refundable no matter the outcome. I imagine that a potential decline of an ID is most likely going to be because of a poor quality picture or an ID that is in such poor shape it's not usable (and therefore not legal to begin with). If a person is made aware of the potential for this and fails to follow the guidelines set in place, with an additional chance to supply you with the correct information/legible picture of the ID before a legitimate decline, then I don't see the problem. (If I'm missing anything, please let me know!) Current versions of IDs, or what IDs look like issued during a certain time period, should be relatively easy to track down with some research. (Googling "Dutch ID card" shows me all the variations of valid ID cards for example, which matches my current one. Driver's license too!)

I think 1 chance to appeal a declined ID would be fair, provided the person is given all the info needed to rectify the situation obviously. I'm assuming requesting a clearer picture of the ID because it couldn't be read wouldn't lead to an instant decline here.

One question: if you're going to hire someone else, can you confirm you'd hire someone who is not part of RPR and will be subject to a contract that has a strict privacy clause for the information they'll be processing?

This would likely be the most common scenario, but there'd also be issues like: We can read your card, but the font on the birthday looks a bit off, we think this sucker is 'shopped. At that point, would giving the person another chance to do a better photoshopping job make sense?

If I were to hire someone, they would obviously be under a strict contract. I would not be seeking someone from within the RPR, though I'm not sure I could prevent them from joining later, if that makes sense? There are various contractual and functional ways to make it harder for the person doing the review from even knowing which user the ID is associated with, as well.

Privacy and protecting people has always been a top priority for me in building the RPR.

That makes perfect sense!

Hmm. I suppose there is a distinct difference between "We can't read your ID because the quality of the photo is really bad, please resubmit a clearer one" and "The ID looks to be tampered with in Photoshop so we have to decline this submission". I'm not sure what the policy would be in case of a photoshop situation though regarding appeals.

In regards to the checking of the licenses/Officially issued IDs, would you be checking them with Official DMV records? (In the event that only US Residents were the one that applied for this badge.)

Also, if this option is implemented, and you do in fact need to access Official channels to verify the information provided, would that increase the surcharge for the badge?

I don't know for sure, but I'd say it's unlikely, unless something called the ID into question - most places that need to check your ID before letting you in do not do this. For example, when was the last time a bouncer made you wait while they called the DMV before letting you into a bar? The international question also makes doing so even more far-fetched.

I am for it but also against it.

I am for it because there are a quite a few minors who think its cool to lie about their age. Try to play with adults and are exposed to subjects they just aren't ready to handle yet. But this also happens all over the internet whether we like it or not.

This would protect adults from the misguidance of a minor, however most minors make it obvious in the way they type or communicate their age. Not all, but most.

That being said with all the ID theft and other such nonsense going about, not sure too many would trust the process.

What if you did age verification via Credit Card/Debit Card. Like the Apple APP Store or Itunes. You have to be 18 to have a credit card in the states.

Just add a section to the profile that includes a Name Field and allows someone to link the credit card to the account. Not to say some kid might not try and pose as a parent or something but it'd be another way of verifying the age/person is who they say they are.

Then you'd just make it to where real names are displayed to the public. Idk just a suggestion.

Also Official US Ids have these subtle symbols on them that are "Holographic" like Pokemon cards that tell you they're legit and not just printed frauds.

I'm a Dutch person in the Netherlands who has successfully used the credit cards of three other people (with their consent and knowledge every single time) to make purchases under their names on international websites. I wouldn't trust this verification method one bit.

To apply for one, yes. To get ahold of one, no. Minors use their parent's cards on the site ALL the time. They could just as easily claim they have their mom's name. Yeah, they could also steal their parent's IDs to get through this process, but we're talking about them needing to have BOTH the credit card AND the ID for the process as suggested. Also, since you have to pay for this process to take place, the credit card verification you're asking about is essentially baked in.

Also also: if the concern is that IDs are commonly stolen, it's worth keeping in mind that credit cards are stolen way more than IDs.

This is a non-starter and could lead to a lot of safety issues.

Random thought: Maybe we'd ask for 10 second videos of the IDs rather than photos. SUUUUPER hard to photoshop that.

I am 110% into this this optional feature being implemented.

Holy crap yes. Is there an easy to access upload location for videos? Obviously they won't fit in an email and not everyone has accounts for Dropbox and the like.

I am fifty-fifty on this. I rather not have a real name displayed on a site, though. This could be a good idea, but I feel not sure.

If this was optional, it be nice.

We will never, EVER require you to publish your real name to the site at large.

Some people have no way to do the pictures, or vids for stuff. I mean I have a webcam but its busted as hell. I am not against this idea, but there are some problems that will face people like me that have no extra cash to pay for anything that would help, or to replace something to allow me to send images or vids. I use a cellphone hotspot to get online, so it limits what I can do in general. I have a literal 7kbs speed.

That is good. I am not comfortable with having a real name shown. So if this was implanted, the ID thing be an optional perk rather than a forced thing?

With me, I am not one for showing a video of something real or personal. This also can lead to some issues as parental permission from the said person who wishes to take this leap.

Yes. Please re-read my starting post for more information on this, I give several clarifications on this.

As the point of this would be for someone to prove they are 18+, there should never be issues of parental permission - only adults would have reason to do this. Again, you would not be showing the pictures or videos to everyone on the site, only to one or two people who work at the RPR whose job it is to check them.

PLEASE go read my starting post closely.

There would be no requirement to do this. You would not need it to access any part of the site. It would just be there for people who both want it and felt it was worth the cost and effort to obtain.

I understand this, and I do think this whole thing is a good idea in the long run, but this is also going to cause some issues with people finding rp. I would do my best to try and Verify my age and all that, but I am also trying to point out it will likely cause Discrimination against people that can't afford to do it. (if there is a charge of some kind.) I mean I have nothing to hide, so I would not have any issue complying, though I would not know what I could do other then show my State Id (if thats acceptable)