Operation Audacious Phoenix

See the actual plan here. This topic is closed as it is no longer as relevant as the more recent planned feature post.


This isn't 100% decided on. This is a potential proposal, submitted for discussion.

Current problems with the Adults Only board:

• Because it is labeled as "Adults Only," people frequently assume that "everything goes." The mods are kept constantly busy correcting people who ignored the "RULES OF THIS FORUM - PLEASE READ" sticky post and go in dropping f-bombs with abandon and describing sex acts in extreme detail.
• It was meant to be a place people uncomfortable RPing with minors for *any reason,* but has become almost exclusively used for requesting sexual RP. This makes it very hard for people who want non-sexual RP with people in their age group to request RP.
• Double posting to the LFRP forum and the LFRP-AO forum is very common for non-sexual RP requests, so as to get the most eyeballs.
• Because of the emergent sex-only focus of the LFRP AO forum, many adults understandably choose to post their non-sexual RP requests on the all ages board, then mark their topic as "18+ only" or similar. This prompts complaints from minors who don't want to wade through topics they are excluded from.
• We don't have an equivalent "under 18" area for minors who are uncomfortable RPing with adults for *any reason.* Minors who are nervous about being taken advantage of by much savvier adults should have the same benefits offered.

Proposed solution:

• Have only one Looking For RP forum.
• Add a filter to both "Find RP" and the Looking For RP forum - "Only show topics from people in my age group." (exactly like the setting for private messages, "only allow people in my age group to initiate conversations with me")
• Add better filters for "do not include sexual content / include sexual content / only show topics marked for sexual content" to both "Find RP" and the Looking For RP forum (filters for adults only - minors would have "do not include sexual content" stuck on by default.)
• Logged out users would not be able to see topics marked as including sexual themes.
• Allow people to choose their own default, just like for private messages, so visiting the LFRP forum and Find RP has their preferred age group/sexuality settings pre-selected.
• Extreme topics such as rape, incest, etc. would still not be allowed on the public forums. We'd continue asking people to go to private groups if that's what they want to talk about/request/play.

The hope would be that this would allow both minors and adults to RP with who they are comfortable with, make it easier to find sexual or non-sexual RP as an individual prefers, reduce confusion about whether the board is public or not, reduce duplicate posts, and create one central place to go searching for RP.

Questions? Concerns? Support? Strongly against? Discuss!

I want to support this, but I have my doubts on it as well. Some of the things you mentioned doing for the possible merger could just as easily work for the Adult Only Forum (i.e. better filters for those who do and don't want sexual encounters, and choosing their own default if they have the Adult Only Forum active.) In fact, I think half of the issues listed with the current forum set-up could be solved with just placing better filters and options on the AO forum to better appeal to adults who want to RP with no sexual content involved.

I also think that adding so many new features into one forum alongside the options we do have would be an overload of choices to some people; it might even become less user-friendly depending on how it's laid out. Some people might even skip over all those new filters when writing ads and post adult stuff in the main forum for minors to see anyway. If something like that happens in the AO forum, it's contained among those who are old enough (hopefully) to see it. If it happens in the merged main forum, it might cause more of an issue, including minors answering those posts before a moderator can get to it.

There's also the fact that we're deleting a safe space for adults to flee to. If there's just one main LFRP forum with all these filters, I would not feel as safe posting an ad. Even with everything filtered out for adults, kids are crafty. At least with the AO forum, if a minor snuck in, you know they're not supposed to be in there. It's more complicated with one main forum plus filters because minors can access the board as well as adults can.

But that's what I can think of off the top of my head, and I will admit that I may be wrong on a thing or two. Like I said, I'm somewhat for it, but I'm far, far more comfortable with two forums instead of one.

I will have to agree with LightSide-Lucree on this one

Filters in the LKFRP AO forum for gore and for mature content is great, because then you can remove all those unwanted posts that deal with smut, when you simply want a different kind of adventure filled role-play with only adult players/characters

"There's also the fact that we're deleting a safe space for adults to flee to. If there's just one main LFRP forum with all these filters, I would not feel as safe posting an ad. At least with the AO forum, if a minor snuck in, you know they're not supposed to be in there. It's more complicated with one main forum plus filters because minors can access the board as well as adults can."

I personally rarely ever (in fact never) set or use filters when creating the LKFRP posts, because I don't mind any level of magic, any length of posts, any type of roleplayers. They are all welcome and I accommodate replies accordingly to let everyone fit in.

I know the Adult Only section is exclusively for 18+ and RPs that come from there will have more gruesome details in battles, whereas in the "All ages" RPs I will tone back anything mature (gore and even innuendo)

I enjoy the peace of mind the total physical separation creates, and the relaxation of having to be less cautious in Adult Only RPs.

Also agreeing with the sentiment of the others. Filters are great, but only if they're utilized. I personally wouldn't be as comfortable posting to one forum knowing there's even a tiny chance a minor might find me, even for generic RP. I'm an old dog and I'm just not that comfy playing with people half my age or younger.

If the issue is adults looking for non-sexual RP having trouble finding RP with other adults because the forum is cluttered with smut requests, maybe the solution isn't less, but more. Maybe have two AO forums, but one specifically for the most common RP requested (the sexual kind) and one for non-sexual adult RP. Make the "does this RP contain sexual themes" a mandatory clickbox so it goes to the right forum. Maybe also have a filter in place so that trigger words (whatever they may be) set off an automatic "this post has words that violate our rules, please read the rules and edit your post accordingly" notice. If that's possible. I really don't know the limitations of the coding.

But I definitely don't feel that consolidating everything into one group and relying on people to responsibly use filters is the answer.

I don't think the adults only forum should be eliminated, but rather more available tags and filters would be a better solution. I'd feel uncomfortable with there only being one forum regardless of the steps taken to make sure minors don't see my topics.

However I don't agree with the above that there should be an entirely different forum for posts marked with sexual content in the RP. This would mean RPs that have graphic sexual content but are plot heavy would be lumped in with RPs that have graphic sexual content but no/almost no plot. It would feel to both sides but especially the plot heavy side like being pushed into a corner and there being no distinction.

On the subject of keeping it just two forums, but with better tagging for the adults forum specifically, these are the tags I think we would benefit from in regards to sexual content specifically:

Along side the 'sexual content' check box there should be 'fade to black' and 'graphic detail' check boxes.

Then a sliding bar with the options of

rarely - occasionally - 'averagely' - frequently - constantly

Yes people would still not use tags correctly, but they'll do that no matter the forum. They'll do that if it's one forum, two, or three.

So I think two forums with better tagging options and asking people who have marked sexual content in their posts to be more specific in the tags as a (before you can post this, please) thing. Making them at least chose 'fade to black' or 'detailed' before being able to post would help.

I like the idea of keeping the AO LFRP forum, but adding better filters for both forums - if only because one slip of the filters in an integrated forum means minors are subjected to adult content, which imo creates even more problems than it solves.

Personally I like the 18+ LFRP forum. It is a screen that offers a bit of assurance that you don’t engage in edgy to with minors. If anyone thinks that “anything goes” despite posted rules, then they really aren’t ‘adults’.

The use of filters are a nice gesture, but it puts the burden on those who only want to RP with 18+ to set them. I hope the LFRP 18+ forum remains a part of RPR.

That part isn't different though - you have to opt-in to seeing the adults only forum right now too.

What if people who want to post a topic in LFRP-AO are forced to sign a sort of pledge just like they are for having to interact on the forums in the first place? Except they have to answer questions to ensure they understand the forum is not fair play for rule breaking.

e.g. "Are you allowed to use f-bombs in this forum?" needs to be answered with a "No" before the user is allowed to access it/post a topic. Could be a few questions to cover multiple things too. I've no idea what the effectiveness is of the pledge as it stands now, but if it's effective enough to be kept in place, maybe this is an option too.

Better filters have always been my first 'want' for LFRP-AO. They're honestly the biggest hurdles I experience and I feel like merging both forums is going to make everything more complicated and harder to do, when the current setup works but just feels incomplete?

This is a very interesting idea!

I like the idea of a pledge and filters made specifically for the LFRP AO forum. I don't mind sexual scenarios in my stories, but I'm someone who prefers it to only happen if it is specifically character development.

I also really don't like the idea of a forum that doesn't automatically block anyone from under age to see it, as well as it makes me reassured when someone can prove to me that they're listed as 18+ without having to show their age to me on their profile by simply having a post in the LFRP AO forum. It eliminates a sense of falsity to me as I have been lied to in the past and had some seriously traumatic drama take place because of the minor in question. I really, really want to continue to have a safe place where I know I won't run in to younger users unless they are lying about their age on RPR as a whole.

Question about the pledge: would it happen every time you want to make a post? I would find this to be excessive and rather annoying to have to re-do something multiple times and find that it'd later just discourage me from using the forums all together.

True. I just hope it doesn’t become overly complicated.

Disclaimer: I have never actually looked at the AO board, and retain the option of not having to because of my assumption that the board is mostly or entirely sexual based rp, which has at times been supported by others.

That being said take my opinion with a grain of salt I suppose, as I have not actually viewed that board.

Since I haven't though, I certainly don't like the idea of combining the two, not outwardly anyway. Filters might help, but I feel the end result will be less options of rp for someone like me, who does not ever want a descriptive sex scene in an rp. I suppose that depends on the setup of said filters.

Adding a third forum is a good idea, at least at first. Problem is (and I don't know this for sure) I am guessing the problems in that board are a result of it's sexually charged nature, and moving them to a different forum would only move the problems there. That being said I absolutely still support that idea, as I feel it would add additional forums for me to feel comfortable viewing.

The pledge thing is something I agree with too, and I think that should be applied to the adult forums as well, but with that likely should come possibly stronger consequences for breaking said rules in those categories. I hate to say that really, because I don't want to be trying to get people in trouble here, but if people are essentially taking an oath to behave, and there is no repercussions for taking that oath, they would assume they aren't a serious thing.

I think a third board inside LFRP AO would be good, but the one I have in mind is a little different. Instead of relocating all rps with sexual content in them, I think it should be home to the primally smut driven ones. That way the rps that are plot heavy, but with some graphic sexual content don't get lumped together with the heavy smut. On top of it, it makes an easy place for people looking for heavy smut to go.

So it accomplishes some decluttering of the board while at the same time not treating all rps with sex in them as the same.

If you wanted to, you could even make a 4th board for plot driven romance/sex scenes. Some people enjoy plot driven romance and sex scenes, but have no interest in heavy smut rps after all.

Adding better filters should also help this.

I will agree that getting rid of LFRP AO is a terrible idea and would be a step backwards.

Woo, I'm late to the party on this one!

I like the idea of a one-time pledge/quiz thing that puts the rules front and center.

I'm leaning towards keeping the AO board because even if content filters were required, someone out there won't mark their posts properly and mature content will slip through the cracks.

Better filters all around seems like a great idea. I definitely want a way to distinguish between the various explicit RPs that are out there because as it stands, I feel like my only choices are 1x1 smut-driven RPs or story-driven group RPs with minors. I want story-driven group RPs, but I don't want to always tip-toe around mature/dark themes.

I'm surprised no one addressed the fact that there isn't an "underage board" or something of that nature. I thought that was an interesting point, and I think we should give minors the option to avoid adults. I'm not entirely sure how we would do that though. Making another age restricted board would split the community too much, in my opinion.

Only in a way in which it already wants to be split.

I'm not sure how much use an underage board would see, honestly. I see teens asking to avoid specific content, but not specific ages, and it's more common for teens to get upset that adults won't play with them. Then again, with the current set up, we have a sort of "adult's club" and "everyone else." Having an underage board (and being clear the minimum age is still 13, so teens don't think they're getting lumped with "little kids") might allow them to feel more in control, like they have the option to be choosy, too. And it could feel safer from the sexual content some specifically say they want to avoid.

Whilst it is illegal and a criminal activity for under-aged users to roleplay adult content (gore/sensual...), it is not a crime for under-aged users to roleplay general content with everyone else (adults and minors alike). Thus a minors-only board is unnecessary since anything they can roleplay, everyone else can do so too.

If anything there should not be anything unsuitable in the general LKFRP forums that teenagers might wish to avoid [that would be an indication such content is in the wrong forum in the first place]

The only reason the 2 boards exist is to mitigate or prevent the chance of adult users unwittingly committing a crime by roleplaying mature/gore content with minors.

An age badge 18+/-18 on profiles would assist minors and adults alike know what age group their peers (profiles and characters) belong to and decide if they want to roleplay with them or not.

In general, I don't see a need for an underage board, as well as everyone else board (where only the same content is allowed) as well as an adults only board

It's true that there should be no content not okay for teens in the main board, but having one would focus on their comfort and sense of security, and the ease by which it can be attained. Less about the content, more about feeling certain of the age of the user. Why should adults be able to protect themselves with reasonable certainty, but not teens? The reason why it's a legal issue to begin with is to protect those who are underage.

Teens are already protected by not being able to access the adult content section.

I feel an additional board for just minors would only create a barrier and further a divide that pulls RPR community apart without a legal need for it, along with the additional admin effort that mods would have to put in by monitoring yet another forum (even more so than the others)

Roleplaying should not aim at discriminating on age, since adults as well as minors who RP in the general board already have the security and safety of knowing that mature/extreme content is not a part of it. The real age of the players at that point becomes somewhat irrelevant and they can all have a good time writing together regardless of it.

A teen only board would lessen opportunities to interact and it can create the heartache of lost friendships (which currently isn't there)

As soon as you turn X age you no longer can meet up and RP with your year (or even months younger) friends in that forum you have been previously role-playing at for months/years (now no longer allowed due to being +1 year)

That is just my point of view and we can all agree or disagree amicably

I second the idea of a sliding bar sort of situation when it comes to erotica. My time and experience with roleplay has shown that, if you allow adult content, you can't get rid of erotica and people looking for it specifically.

So a sliding scale may work best, however there is no real indicator of 'how much' should be in a roleplay for most people. 2 scenes may be a lot to some people, while that's not even remotely enough for others.

I think Roleplayer's Guild had a decent answer in this regard:
No Erotica- You don't want any erotica in your RP, save maybe Fade to Black.
Story Driven- Erotica can happen, but it will always in service of the plot and plot dominates the story.
Character Selective - This means the character itself may do erotica, but it will be only in particular circumstances and/or with particular characters.
Erotica Preferred- You are actively looking for erotica in an RP.