The Power of Souls

So this is more of an open question to our DM because I am not really versed in the topic.

As far as I understand, anti-heroes are people that lack general qualities that a hero would normally have.
So in essence they either have twisted morals and ideals or partake in twisted actions but never both at a time.

Would that not imply that an anti-hero with say, 'bad' morals would immediately become a villain if he acted out on those?

In my mind, and I'd like Olivia to chime in as well, since I was going to ask her views on her character thread, an antihero is a person who uses questionable means that ultimately benefit the greater good, even if their motivation isn't moral. A person driven by greed who targets thieves and bandits while keeping the stolen goods for themselves would be an antihero.

Now, if an antihero begins victimizing the innocent, and I don't mean they're rude to innocent people, but cause harm to them, they're quickly going to find themselves in the realm of villainy, and no longer be a valid PC.

Things like barfights, intimidation, or accidentally catching an innocent in an area of effect spell don't mean you're losing your character. We're all adults. I think we can recognize villainy if we see it, and if I see something villainous, I will discuss the ramifications of that action with the player to make sure they understand the stakes at play.

To me, a villain is the hero of the other side. At least, the most relatable villains have a justifiable cause to their actions and for others. In Olivia's backstory, I did paint the bandits as heroes taking arms against this bullying group of female mercenaries. But to common people, wanting to thin the numbers of bandits and to keep them under ones thumb is not an inherently evil thing. Doing so serves the common citizen's viewpoint of being a hero.

But if you torture and harm the main characters' side of good, you are a villain. And if you harm the "other side", you are a villain in their eyes. Out of the Icons, the Crusader is also an Antihero, as he uses the power of hell to benefit the forces of good. He also believes that what he does will benefit good in the end. So if he has to sacrifice some of his followers as bait for a larger group of demons to be sent to the slaughter, he is being an anti-hero.

This seems like a great place to bring this up. GM, I remember you saying the Kyton flail will (for lack of a better word) upgrade itself over time. With Rallaster in play as well, the stage is already set to tempt Shadya into falling from grace and becoming a blackguard or antipaladin. If this is your plan, pull no punches and make it a hard choice. I'm quite happy with the atypical paladin she is now and I legit feel bad for hurting immaginary NPCs that didn't deserve it. At the same time, anti-heroes are cool.

what the hell is an antipaladin or a blackguard? ^^,

That’s what fallen paladins who sold their souls to the forces of darkness were called in previous editions.

In this edition a fallen paladin would either be an Oathbreaker from the DMG or a paladin of Treachery from the UA. You could also possibly spin the oath of conquest into being a fallen paladin though I personally view it as a paladin that has had those goals since the beginning.

It's 5e Paladins aren't good, monks aren't lawful, barbarians aren't chaotic, and not all clerics are healers. Welcome to the new world, it's a scary unfamiliar place haha.


Also to have something to say on the topic, I see Antiheroes as more of a gray zone than someone who is evil but happens to benefit others in their actions. To pull from comics, the Punisher is a good antihero imo. He does things that most people find to be to harsh, even evil or cruel, but he does it for the greater good. Taking evil actions with a good purpose (normally greater good in mind) behind them makes you an antihero if you ask me.

A villian does evil things just to benefit themselves or what they view as theirs with no thoughts on how they impact others. Sometimes this is for personal reasons, or reasons related to a faction or wven your whole people. In DnD people get hung up on alignment to much, you can have a villian that is lawful good to his own people or family but is chaotic evil to others looking in.

((Edit: fixed first link))

Any one of these

antipaladin

https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Oathbreaker_(5e_Class)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UAPaladin_SO_20161219_1.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjql-7G497XAhVF5YMKHRmoDKMQFgh5MBg&usg=AOvVaw0xltt-vQnbebEV-yXD9VH3

The first is a dead link, the second doesn't really help me ^^, but thank you for the last one

First link again
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Antipaladin_(5e_Archetype)

I guess I explained poorly. The Antipaladin site is virtually empty.

edit nevermind, it works but the site does not see it as a full link
try it like this

I'm not sure how you embedded your hyperlinks tbh.

"[url= the link }text of your choosing[/url] ", hotkey: ctrl+l

(of course with a closing ], i just don't know how to show it otherwise)

the way you embedded did not get the last part of the url as the link and I assumed if was information on your part so I went on
this site

instead of this one