Community Discussion #5: February 16th 2013

Part 3 of 3

Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3

StarArmy: Well, Daredevil is blind.


Sadrain: I might go away from conversation now, have to do some things, but could check back in later. :) Good luck and have fun discussing!


Jane: Yes, I had a "luck dragon" who produced the total opposite due to her usual grumpy mood. The most effect it had on herself and sometimes on others if the other players wanted to make use of her "abbility" during rp.


Alecia: I'm with Sadrain on that again, I can't use random generators for the same reason, but my mind seems to randomly generate relevant weaknesses during roleplay, even if it puts mu characters into trouble XD As an additional benefit, it makes it certain that the weaknesses are played out in the RP.


Kim: Thanks for participating Sadrian! See you again soon! :D


StarArmy: A character with terrible luck could make an interesting story. You could make your RP version of the night of "The Hangover." :P


Alecia: Bye Sadrain!


Jane: Every medal has two sides, and a power used wrong can be a very bad disability.
And bye Sad <3


Ben: I had a genie who forced you to take a camel along with every wish.


Jane: HAHA! Ben that is .. amazing.


Ben: Characters had to weigh what they wanted against the inconvenience of owning camels.


Alecia: Ben: LOL.


PenGryphon2007: That's amazing, Ben XD


Jane: I adore you for that.


Ben: <3


Tailbone: Goodness, that's another complex one that really depends on the specific example I'd think.


Jane: Seriously, that makes a character awesome. It is not something great, but the reactions it gets are hilarious.


StarArmy: I had a friend whose D&D party was "blessed" with a glowing green cat that hung around the party, making it very difficult to sneak anywhere in the night.


Kim: That's pretty hysterical.


The Snail (played by Kim): Now that I think of it, I think my character Snail's extreme magical allergy (and magical reactions when exposed) probably qualifies it as a snowflake simply via extremity of disability.


Earendill: Ohgod Snail


StarArmy: In the final dungeon the enemy magically extinguished all the torches and the cat was the key to navigating. :)


Dagger (played by Jane): :snores, and drools in her sleep. (Not a super badass weakness, but not really intriguing for a woman xD)


Kim: Oh god, the final boss was literally about herding cats.


Kim: Jane: Probably not intriguing for anyone. I like my beauty sleep! ;)


Kim: Okay, some nitty gritty for all you freeform players out there: How do you reconcile a matter of two special(ly powered/empowered) characters from two different worlds when they're fighting or otherwise opposing each other's viewpoints? Obviously there has to be one "winner" or somehow reach a truce. How do/would you determine this?


Earendill: By the sheer force of WHOEVER RPS THE BEST.


Kim: That sounds like a dance-off, Earendill.


PenGryphon2007: And however do you decide that, Earendill? XD


Jane: I would try to be realistic and talk about how it could result, ooc. Or simply use a dice. Or see what happens during the roleplay (reaction-wise).


Sanne: I tend to allow the other character to win. I find drama and defeat shape a character greatly, and I prefer a good story that is fueled by drama.

This is also my downfall though, because I don't know anymore how to play (very) powerful characters. XD


Lorvilran: that sounds like a vet could beat up on a novice who they don't like.


Jane: If the cirumstances are right, and the novice is unlucky.


StarArmy: That reminds me of old Ayenee and its Sayajins vs. Sailor Moon fights. :P http://stararmy.com/wiki/doku.php?id=ayenee


Earendill: Generally such things require a GM/DM/Whatever to be present to guide things. Maybe decided the ultimate outcome.


Jane: wait, i missunderstood sorry


Ben: Okay, see you guys later. Have fun <3


Sadrain: I usually talk out the outcome or come to a draw. :) Or someone interrupts. *drops by*


Kim: Bye Ben!


Alecia: Bye Ben :)


Kim: In a game without a GM/DM, has anyone ever tried bringing in a third party arbiter to help them decide the outcome where people are disagreeing over who is the most powerful, the strongest, the fastest, etc?


Lorvilran: Only if I could find an impartial one.


Alecia: By what fits where the players want to take the story next. Even if a character is less powerful than the other, they could win due to good luck or bad luck on the part of the more powerful character. I have a major preference for cooperative roleplay, so this doesn't come up much for me. If my superpowered characters' losing will make the story more fun, I can arrange it by using influences from their universe.


Tailbone: ...I've been brought in as a third party, does that count? That kind of goes with my reputation, though.


Kim: I think that counts, Tailbone. :)


Kim: It seems like most people rely on OOC discussion as part of the mechanism, and a certain amount of trust in their partners.


Kim: I got asked this off-screen, and being who I am, I'm just going to forward it to you: Does a character still count as specially empowered if they never make USE of their special powers? Can a character with special powers also count as "mundane" through their actions?


Rubix: Yes they still count, but yes they can also be mundane by their actions. It's a wibbly wobbly web.


Lorvilran: They are still counted as long as someone knows aboout it in my opinion.


StarArmy: Yes. And personally I'm sick of seeing powers that are "in reserve" like only when a character is enraged, etc.


PenGryphon2007: That's a great question! I would say yes, they're still specially empowered, even if they never use it...think of Rogue in the X-Men. She uses her ability rarely, but she still has it.


Kim: Why, StarArmy? Is it just overdone to you?


StarArmy: Yeah.


Sanne: Why is that-


Sanne: Kim beat me to it. XD


Alecia: Well... they can deliver a crowning moment of awesome to the story on occasion, so I guess they count.


Sadrain: They count still, because at some point they might use it.


lazer: You also have to consider the setting. A special character who is surrounded by lesser beings may opt to keep their tricks in the trunk. A vampire still fears being discovered by mortals, because no one likes an angry mob.


StarArmy: It's a cheat to make their character more powerful without any of the everyday side effects.


Alecia: lazer: Great point! I very much agree.


Kim: Lazer: Sounds like another awesome example of super power as weakness! :)


Jane: I roleplay a godess that could do many things, but sees no sense in doing it. It costs energy she cannot restore and she wants to blend in, instead of being recognized what she is. So she tries to be normal, even so sometimes she is rather clumsy because she does not know how humans work.


Lorvilran: Not always Star. Enraging is just the circumstance of activation, your character is still accountable for their actions.


Alecia: StarAmy: I think that would depend on the power. Sometimes this can be very realistic.


Kim: For those saying they have characters with special powers that choose not to use them, what was the appeal of that type of character for you? Why add an element to a character that you don't plan to use?


Tailbone: Ooh, this is much like the other question. I hate to use my characters as examples, but my psychic Nick, he is not only blessed with suck, but a complete lack of control over his abilities means that he generally is played as no more than a street wise jerk, largely 'normal' and horribly flawed. Who due to his 'gifts' gets awful headaches, nosebleeds, uncontrollable moments of automatic writing, and passes out for days at a time. However, he is absolutely an example of an "in reserve" power holder, but still lacking the control. My question, is he still overpowered if he abilities go haywire when he is gravelly injured as an uncontrollable defense?


StarArmy: I think so Tailbone. Power is power, it's still going to affect the other characters in your RP.


Kim: I would say he's overpowered if what happens when it goes haywire is overpowered. Not knowing what actually happens, I can't answer the question.


lazer: Setting is just as important to a fight as the fight itself. I think it can put a lot more on the line if open conflict can lead to ruin, even if you've won the fight. Political outmaneuvering, other parties seeking vengeance, etc. There needs to be things on the line or otherwise what's the point? Lets say your psychic accidentally goes nuts: What else is going to be damaged besides his enemy? Property? Himself? His loved ones? It can certainly be a weakness if you're clever and interesting with the direction you take it.


PenGryphon2007: If there's no one to stop his power/ability from affecting them, then I'd say yes....?


Kim: Also not knowing who you are playing WITH and what their abilities are, I couldn't answer the question!

Great points there, lazer.


Kim: Star, I'm surprised you would define that as overpowered, since your original complaint was that people with powers that activate on enragement or extreme danger was that they don't have "everyday consequences". It sounds like Tailbone's character suffers from constant consequences!


Alecia: I have to go. Thanks everyone for the inspiring chat! :D


Kim: See you soon Alecia! Thanks for joining us. :)


PenGryphon2007: I have a character who is afraid of magic; he hates it; refuses to learn it; but one of the items he just recently came into contact with could possibly be a magical artifact (he doesn't know yet). I suppose for me the idea is: what would he do if he had to come into contact with it AND if he used it. I dunno if this answers the question, but I think having a character reserved in using their ability gives them some added mystery/depth to their character. Although if they never use it or it never comes up--why bother giving it to them?


Kim: Maybe just knowing gives the player some satisfaction and extra enjoyment in playing them? :)


PenGryphon2007: That would work too. :)


Jane: If you give your character a power he/she does not use (or rarely) it could have different reasons. If the character does use it scarcely it is to give it more depth. If it is not used, it could be part of the concept. Like for example a magical species that is supposed to be magical ...


Kim: Is there an art to introducing a special character to a mundane character? or vice versa?


lazer: I guess that's highly dependent on the setting. Is this something the mundane character is used to? Will they be afraid? In awe?


Copper_Dragon:

Quote:
Can a character with special powers also count as "mundane" through their actions?

Taking up this one since it applies to me and mine. A lot of my characters have strange, unusual, or potentially powerful abilities. But they don't abuse them and flaunt them at every turn, and when they do use them, they might do so sparingly or what is within their logical scope for how a power should be used. Otherwise they're totally average, normal people who do things you or I would do, but they have the capability to do fantastical things if they felt the want or need to do so.
Quote:
Is there an art to introducing a special character to a mundane character? or vice versa?

This is a personal peeve of mine, but a lot of my experience with special characters is in the Might Makes Right manner-- they DO abuse their power and flaunt it whenever they can, and when my rather mundane characters come across them, I'm repelled and disgusted by this flaunt of "Ohoho look at me my character is so awesome". The special character needs to be relate-able as someone I can connect to and want to interact with.


Copper_Dragon: And it's hard to relate when someone's shoving a physical god in my face.


StarArmy: Word.


Kim: Is there a way that someone could still play a "physical god" and not make you feel as if you were just there to be an audience, Copper?


lazer: Well you also have to consider OOCly what an overpowered character brings to the table as well. Playing a good guy that always comes in and resolves any problems with their massive amount of power deus ex style isn't fun for anyone, and I would argue is a bit selfish of the player. An overpowered evil character on the other hand or someone who is GENERATING problems with their special character is always interesting. More problems introduced is always better than the opposite, because suddenly there are things that need resolved by everyone else around.


StarArmy: We talked about specialness and its importance and having a God in the RP takes away the relative specialness of other characters. I wouldn't want "gods" in my RP. This is why roleplay groups have rules that lay out the expectations.


Copper_Dragon: *eyes Superman* Yeah. Make them relate-able (FireFox's spell check is screwing with that word today, so I'll sound it out).

Make them someone who isn't simply defined by how hard they can beat someone up in a fight or juggle planets with their pinky fingers. S'reason why I like Superman so much. For all his power and might that makes him almost godlike, he's a remarkably human, sometimes flawed, person that would make him worthwhile to be around even if I bumped into him as Clark Kent somewhere in Metropolis.


Copper_Dragon: And he'll do things that aren't just based on being able to punch Darkseid across a city.

... does that make sense, at all?


Tailbone: There would have to be a good reason for these characters to interact and that would probably provide the solution. If there isn't a good motive then the suspension of disbelief breaks down - we need to be ready to accept that in many cases characters will see one another and then try to avoid interaction or even flee in fright or an unwillingness to be seen. Superman is a wonderful example of a god among men who is still mundane as a person.


Jane: Thank you for the chat, I have to go :)


Kim: Yes, it does. It sounds like the main key is to define a character via their *character* and not solely by their super power.


Kim: Bye bye Jane! Thank you for joining us. :)


Lorvilran: Ahh but lazer an OP villain tends to NOT be able to lose.


Copper_Dragon: Bingo, exactly. And bye, Jane, take care!


lazer: Of course, you want to value you a character by their narrative worth, not by their abilities.


lazer: Because at the end of the day the narrative is what's fun, not winning or losing or whatever.


StarArmy: It'd be funny if Superman showed up randomly in other superhero movies and solved some of their problems with his powers as a literary device.


PenGryphon2007: XD Haha


Kim: I have read Batman comics where Superman showed up and solved things for Batman... And it ENRAGED Batman! XD


PenGryphon2007: I need to read those. XD


Kim: Batman always seems to think that solving things with a real life deus ex machina is going to cause more problems down the line... That a non-repeatable solution makes him look weak and encourages people to go right back to their old ways as soon Superman goes home.


PenGryphon2007: Anyway...it seems that to create a specially (em)powered character, one still needs to focus on the character before just going haywire with the powers/abilities/what-have-you.


Tailbone: Well he's sort of a poor sport in that way and does not play well with others. Especially when the guy coming to show him up is one of his best friends, who happens to be a super powered alien who doesn't have to put in much effort. That creates a deep sense of disgruntlement, hahaha.


Lorvilran: Batman wasn't the most social person to begin with.


Kim: It's been surprising to me that player responsibility has not come up very much in this chat. In almost all of our previous chats, we circled back to players having a responsibility to others over and over again. I was expecting the limits on super powers to contain a million references to that concept, and yet it's hardly come up.


Sadrain: Character as character always matter more than their powers. Unless the powers define them, from head to toe. Like they are huge ball of electricity. And if they are character, then even they have some traits that define them.


Rubix: The unspoken rule Kim. ;


Tailbone: I think realizing someone as a person before realizing what tools they have at their disposal is important, Superman before being the Man of Steel was a well-brought up farm boy with excellent manners and a lot of natural caring. Even though his powers shapes the WAY he does things, his personality shapes HOW.


Rubix: * ;)


Earendill: I woudl've brought it up, but I'm a bit distracted with d&d preparation.


Kim: Yes, you're right, Batman is kind of a curmudgeon. That's why we love him so. ;)


Sadrain: I think it circled back when we talked about making everyone feel needed in role play. :)


Kim: Ooh, you're right Sadrain, I'd forgotten about that.


Kim: So, in summary, character and plot are the shiz and everything else, including super powers, are best done in support of these things. ;)


lazer: Yeah I mean what's the point of roleplay if it's not a group activity? Everyone needs to be detached and objective from their character, yet have an attachment at the same time. One must always be asking themselves "what can I do to make things more fun for the group?" Give a little to get a little. Seems like you can answer pretty much any question about super powered characters if you're following those sort of tenants.


StarArmy: I agree with lazer.


Tailbone: Well, most of the people in this chat are pretty responsible roleplayers who care about making the experience the best it can be. That's why were here! It is an unspoken rule and I'm glad we didn't feel the need to bring it up - I can only hope that means because it's common sense and seems unnecessary to discuss respect and personal responsibility, especially in the case of powerful characters. x)


Sadrain: I agree with Kim and Lazer. :)


Kim: Thank you for your incredible thoughts today, guys. I'm really looking forward to writing the summary of this chat. :)


Sadrain: Haha, I like that aspect of thougt, Tailbone. Also, did I say I love your username?


Lorvilran: I miss rp. x.x


Kim: I'd like to spend the last few minutes we have together talking about next week. Would it be interesting to you guys to retry our previously derailed "mundane" characters chat, or do you think we've covered that ground enough? I'm nervous that we're going to end up in the same boat of "no such thing as mundane, every character has something that makes them special" that made discussion rather difficult last time.


Tailbone: Hee, thanks! <3


Sadrain: Thank you for hosting it, Kim! And everyone, for participating! Good luck and have fun, until next week. :)
and I think I agree, Kim, no character is really mundane in true sense, unless you make him/her so, we could give another topic a try.


PenGryphon2007: I think unless we started out with a definition of 'mundane', we all hold to, we're going to end up like last time.


Earendill: I suggest we just go on to the next topic of conversation, Kim.


lazer: I'm really interested in the topic of pitting players against each other ICly but keeping the unity of group story telling OOCly, to make a more interesting freeform setting, but I'm happy to talk about whatever haha. And yeah thanks a lot Kim!


Lorvilran: I'm fine with what ever.


Copper_Dragon: Moving on to the next topic would be nice.


Tailbone: I think we go on to another topic too - without a proper definition, of which I'm not sure there is one, we're going to end up in the same corner for sure.


PenGryphon2007: I agree; move onto the next topic since it seems we have a few remaining still. :)


Sadrain: I am still curious about character profile making one. Too much details, too little, how to 'hand them over' to the reader and so on. :)


Kim: I was thinking that for our last topic (for this series), we could talk about actually running a RP group. This would range from establishing and enforcing a setting, to mentoring new players, to establishing and enforcing rules fairly. Our groups system is expanding a lot, and as a result, a lot of people are becoming first time GMs and/or guild leaders, and having some community best practices to refer to could be incredibly beneficial.


PenGryphon2007: Oooh, that's a great idea, Kim. :)


Sadrain: Well, that could work as well. :)


lazer: Word.


Kim: That's a great idea, Sadrain. I'll keep it in my back pocket for the next time we run chat series. :)


Earendill: Oh, that's definitely an interesting topic. Though I fear it entails a lot more than can be said in such a short chat.


StarArmy: Sounds great! I'll try to make it again.


lazer: Yeah you'll have to have some pretty good talking points prepared, Kim. :O


Kim: No doubt there's miiiiiles to cover, Earendill! It's okay if we need to keep discussing it outside of the live chat. In fact, I'd be stunned and appalled if we didn't. ;) But it'd be nice to get everyone together to discuss it.


Kim: Yes!

I so much liked having Pen's help in coming up with prompts this time around that I thought I'd invite everyone to send me a prompt that they'd be interested in seeing discussed. :D


Kim: Star, we'd love love love to have you back. :)


PenGryphon2007: That's a great idea, Kim! I had fun contributing. :)


Sadrain: I will try to make it as well, although I don't have much experience of running my own groups. Somehow, they never get enough attention. But I've been staff in some bigger ones. :)


Tailbone: It's been great, but I think I'm going to apply all the inspiration from the chat towards some posting! (: I've been neglecting my characters terribly due to classes.


Sadrain: So have I. D:


Kim: Enjoy your RP, Tailbone! :D


Sadrain: And a RPing confidence losing, too. >.< But gotta deal with it somehow. P=


Lorvilran: You two have fun, I has no rp. :P


Kim: Thanks for coming, everyone. Please do think about questions you want to ask the community about guiding a RP group, and send me your suggestions!


Copper_Dragon: You're welcome, Kim! Twas fun today. And thanks for the prompts, Pen!


StarArmy: *waves* Have a great weekend!


Kim: You too! :D


Sadrain: Find some, Lorvilran! *prods*


Sadrain: And everyone, have a great weekend and next week! :)


PenGryphon2007: :) You too, Sadrain!


Tailbone: Thanks, I shall! G'luck Sadrain, you can do it! Bye. <3


Kim: *group hugs* <3 <3


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